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Latest comment: 15 days ago by UnpetitproleX in topic america is named after amritchand

Wiki Education assignment: Studies in Tibetan Buddhism

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 27 January 2025 and 5 May 2025. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): I vera chirino (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by I vera chirino (talk) 20:31, 24 February 2025 (UTC)Reply

Summit

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Mr. Tsering Thapa from Kathmandu, Nepal became the first person to summit the holy Mount Kailash on 15th June 2025. Juyalpranay (talk) 17:00, 25 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Requested move 16 August 2025

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Oppose arguments had a convincing argument that the common name is the current one and thus POVNAME applies even if the proposed name is more neutral. While the other proposed name is also used, the nominator's argument has been totally disproved. (closed by non-admin page mover) ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ () 07:37, 31 August 2025 (UTC)Reply


Mount KailashGang Rinpoche – Only Indian sources use the term "Mount Kailash" for this subject, while international sources use "Gang Rinpoche". This includes UNESCO as well. Wareon (talk) 06:46, 16 August 2025 (UTC)  Relisting. TarnishedPathtalk 12:07, 23 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

  • Oppose No, not only Indian sources use Mount Kailash, so do Chinese , Nepali , British and German sources (mostly books) as well. So, due to COMMONNAME I am coming down on the side of opposing this move. LightlySeared (talk) 16:23, 16 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
    Similarly, you can also find Indian sources that have called it Gang Rinpoche. It ultimately  boils down to WP:POVNAME. Don't you think that calling it "Mount Kailash" reinforces Hindu religious belief while "Gang Rinpoche" is a  neutral name? CharlesWain (talk) 17:20, 16 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
    Yes POVNAME applies here as well, however I am of the opinion that Kailash has become—through British carelessness and colonialism—the common name for the mountain in English, completely divorced from its original religious context, which is what our readers will most likely search for. (see Google Trends).
    Granted, given that there will be a redirect anyway that's not that big of an impact, but to quote POVNAME: Article titles and redirects should anticipate what readers will type as a first guess and balance that with what readers expect to be taken to. I simply don't see most people searching for Gang Rinpoche, as sad as that is.
    The fact the Brits colonized India and then spread the name blissfully unaware of the religious implications is tragic, but that's the way history happened. For the same reason our article for Mount Everest hasn't been moved, despite it perpetuating colonial baggage by retaining the colonial name.
    In short, I am weighing COMMONNAME higher than POVNAME in this case, for reasons above.LightlySeared (talk) 19:02, 16 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
  • Support - There are enough reliable sources to confirm that Gang Rinpoche is a more broadly accepted name. D4iNa4 (talk) 16:38, 16 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
  • Support per above. If we are seriously going to rely on search count, then more people clearly search for "Kailash Mansarovar" than any other title. That became possible because Google is banned in China, and Indians know the subject as "Kailash Mansarovar". Nevertheless, it has the same problems as "Mount Kailash", given it gives more credence to the Hindu point of view. "Gang Rinpoche" is indeed a neutral name. Wisher08 (talk) 04:38, 17 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Support It is the accurate name and used widely as compared to mount kailash which is used in India mostly. Hidden by the Leaves (talk) 05:35, 17 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
  • Support per nom. The current name unnecessarily pushes Hindutva POV that this mountain belongs to Hindus, despite it being never a part of India. Given that enough reliable source mention "Gang Rinpoche", it is more logical to opt for this title. Raymond3023 (talk) 08:19, 17 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
  • Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. My personal impression is that "Mount Kailash" is more common, and some online searches seem to confirm this:
    • "Mount Kailash" has 2920 hits on Google Scholar; "Gang Rinpoche" has 80 hits.
    • Ngrams indicates that "Mount Kailash" is more than 100 times as common as "Gang Rinpoche" and has been for years.
If the supporters can give any reason to think that this evidence is wrong or misleading, I'm open to hearing it. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 18:43, 17 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
We have already agreed that both names are widely used, and WP:COMMONNAME is irrelevant here because the concern is more over [[WP:POVNAME|which name is neutral]]. For example, [[Ram Setu]] is a more common name than [[Adam's bridge]], we won't call it Ram Setu because "common name" is not ultimate when it comes to deciding page titles. Wisher08 (talk) 04:24, 18 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Common name is the criteria when there is a clear predominance for a name in RS. It was the criteria for Adam's Bridge as well, the most common name in English. As the FAQ at Talk:Adam's Bridge notes: English "Wikipedia's policy on article titles and guideline on naming conventions require that the title of an article be the modern name generally used in English-language reliable sources, such as (in this case) scholarly works on geography, history, and religion."
Even here, Adam is also religious and bridge is a misnomer but so we decide by common name. As for Kailash, this is predominant usage as shown here and below, we needn't prefer another POV when a common name is clearly established. Gotitbro (talk) 05:28, 18 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
I'm afraid this is a misrepresentation of the search results for Adam's bridge Vs Ram Setu. Try counting search results for Ram Setu and Adam's bridge on Google news for starters, you will find "Ram Setu" is more commonly used. There exists POV only in using "Mount Kailash", not Gang Rinpoche. Wisher08 (talk) 02:53, 19 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
I did not cite search/news results in my comment above. But news items [also disputed in this case by general search results] are not the only things we use when determining common names (other RS and considerations equally apply), the FAQ clearly notes "naming conventions require that the title of an article be the modern name generally used in English-language reliable sources, such as (in this case) scholarly works on geography, history, and religion."
I recommend you go through the more than half a dozen move discussions on that page. Gotitbro (talk) 17:42, 19 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Gang Rinpoche is also a religious name from Tibetan Buddhism, the Bons call it Gangdise (from which it was renamed after the introduction of Buddhism), in Buddhism (generally, beyond Tibetan Buddhism) it is also known as Kailash, while the Jains call it Ashtapada. In English, Tibetan Buddhists also use the name Kailash, e.g. Robert Thurman (), Rigpawiki (). Also see the nearby Adi Kailash, Lake Manasarovar, Gurla Mandhata, Lake Rakshastal which do not use Tibetan/Chinese names. It is also wrong to state that the mountain was given the name by the British, it has been known by that name (and Hindu, Buddhist pilgrimages to it have been going on) since the first millenium.
Chinese sources have in recent years begun using Gang Rinpoche (note the Tibetan transliteration is Kangrinboqe) along with Kailash but the name remains the same in English and all other languages. Gang Rinpoche barely registers in sources, RS or otherwise. A comparision with the recent usage in China of Xizang for Tibet is also apparent. The mountain has always been known by this name in non-Chinese sources. We have had the same name since the article was first created and evidently we shouldn't budge. Gotitbro (talk) 09:17, 18 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Can you present sources instead of telling things nobody heard ever before? No, Gang Rinpoche is not a religious name from Tibetan Buddhism, however, Mount Kailash is a Hindu religious name and it was indeed created by the British. Your another claim that "it has been known by that name (and Hindu, Buddhist pilgrimages to it have been going on) since the first millenium" is also baseless. Can you find a source to back it up?
Furthermore, you are similarly misleading others by claiming "Chinese sources have in recent years begun using Gang Rinpoche" and that "The mountain has always been known by this name in non-Chinese sources" when in fact this name "Gang Rinpoche " is being used by reliable sources in English language since 20th century. Wareon (talk) 17:32, 18 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
The Tibetan Buddhist name might be used in certain English-language RS but it is nowhere prominent enough as Kailash. The Tsultrim Allione book you cite has a single mention of Gang Rinpoche while Kailash is used frequently throughout the book, e.g.: "Mount Kailash (Tibetan: Tise Snow Mountain) is situated in the Trans-Himalayan Range and is regarded as the most sacred of all pilgrimage places by Hindus and Buddhists alike." [As I had stated above "In English, Tibetan Buddhists also use the name Kailash."]
Gang Rinpoche (Rinpoche already being a hint) is clearly a Tibetan Buddhist name. The mountain is sacred after all and all names follow as such, most of this is already there in our article ("Tibetan Buddhists call it Kangri Rinpoche; 'Precious Snow Mountain'. Bon texts have many names: Water's Flower, Mountain of Sea Water, Nine Stacked Swastikas Mountain.") but to elaborate: (Martin Gray):

Followers of Bon, Tibet's pre-Buddhist, shamanistic religion, call the mountain Tise and believe it to be the seat of the Sky Goddess Sipaimen. Additionally, Bon myths regard Tise as the sight of a legendary 12th-century battle of sorcery between the Buddhist sage Milarepa and the Bon shaman Naro Bon-chung. Milarepa's defeat of the shaman displaced Bon as the primary religion of Tibet, firmly establishing Buddhism in its place. While the Buddha is believed to have magically visited Kailash in the 5th century BC, the religion of Buddhism only entered Tibet via Nepal and India in the 7th century AD. Tibetan Buddhists call the mountain Kang Rimpoche the 'Precious One of Glacial Snow' and regard it as the dwelling place of Demchog (also known as Chakrasamvara) and his consort, Dorje Phagmo. Three hills rising near Kang Rimpoche are believed to be the homes of the Bodhisattvas Manjushri, Vajrapani, and Avalokiteshvara.

Further see this about Mt. Kailash by Matthieu Ricard. The name is prevalent in Buddhist sources.
The ngram results cited above () clearly show that Gang Rinpoche barely registers in literature while Kailash has been the known name in English since at least the 19th-century (). To claim that the British somehow named the mountain/created the name is unfounded (they would then also have to name Manasarovar, Mandhata, Rakshastal etc). Recorded mentions of an undefined sacred Himalayan mountain and lake (named "Kailash", "Meru" and "Manasarovar") date back millenia (Mahabharata, Ramayana) and are later also found in such texts as Mahavastu, Xuanzang's Records of the Western Regions (1, 2), Skanda Purana among others. Specific mentions of our Tibetan Kailash/Manasarovar follow in Tibetan Buddhist texts and later in the records of Indian pilgrims from the Mughal-era (e.g. Baz Bahadur Chand), then of-course follow accounts of Indian pilgrims during the British-era (e.g. by William Moorcroft, Henry Strachey) from where the name entered the English-language. The sacred formation of this particular mountain being Bon>Buddhism>Hinduism and Jainism over the last millenia in that order, the current popularity of the pilgrimage though is traceable to colonial rule but neither did the British name the mountain nor did they create the pilgrim route which preceded them by centuries. Alex McKay's Kailas Histories: Renunciate Traditions and the Construction of Himalayan Sacred Geography traces this phenomenon of the mountain's increasing sacrality during the last millenia in detail. Some quotes for pilgrimage:

But if we cannot conclusively date a Hindu presence at Kailas-Manasarovar even to the 17th century, earlier visits seems certain. Travel there by renunciates probably predates this by four or five centuries, or much earlier if we accept that early sources reflect some knowledge from actual journeys to the region. ... Thus, not least because of the renunciates' need for patronage to travel outside the Indic world, the most probable impetus to renunciate travel to the Kailas-Manasarovar region was the demand for alchemical agents that arose by if not earlier than, the 13th century CE. ... The Naths are prime candidates for having been early renunciate visitors to Kailas. With their advanced ritual technology and inheritance of peripatetic and other features of earlier renunciate traditions they were conceptually equipped to transact with the mountains and the addition of the suffix nath to Himalayan toponyms at sites en route to the Ganges' sources such as Badrinath, Kedarnath, Rudranath, Baijnath, and (on a route from Kailas-Manasarovar to Chamba), Triloknath, seems to testify to a powerful presence of Naths in this landscape. Furthermore, they seem to be the first group of Indic renunciates for whose travels we can identify an economic base. ... In later sources the Indian Tantric master Padmasambhava is credited with a primary role in establishing Buddhism in Tibet. There are tales of his visiting Tise and a reference from the immediate pre-phyidar period to the region attracting wandering religious practitioners. A Dunhuang text dated by Mathew Kapstein to probably 965 or 977, mentions an Indian Buddhist practitioner who travelled to Ngari around that time. There he, "practiced the profound rites of service and attainment at Mt Tise, and performed ablutions in Lake [Mapham]", before travelling on to Samye, Gansu and China. ... It also states that in the early 10th century, although "Bön" practitioners had apparently been expelled by the new Buddhist rulers, the kingdom still had practitioners of the Dzogchen (rDzog chen) teachings from the Zhang zhung snyan rgyud lineage (established in the 8th century), who were in retreats throughout the region and whose practices overlapped the two faiths. One is stated to have meditated at Tise, yet he is just one of a number of practitioners associated with different locations in the region.

Note: The Tise is the other [and the more prevalent local Tibetan] name for the mountain, Gangtise, is a reference to a deity of the same name. As previously stated all names associated with this mountain are religious in nature.
About Chinese English-language usage, the observation was not that the usage is entirely recent but that Chinese sources have recently increasingly begun using that name (much the same case with Xizang), though even then they continue to use Kailash in conjunction. A search at tibet.cn (among others) for both names makes it apparent. These haven't obviously affected broader English-language usage.
Ultimately however it maybe that the name came to be, Kailash is the most common name in English (from encyclopedias, news media, scholarship and otherwise). Most (rather all) of the sources in our article reflect the same. The original rationale that "only Indian sources use the term" is unestablished. Objections can be also be raised for British isles, Mount Everest etc. but we go predominant usage in English-language RS. Gotitbro (talk) 17:35, 19 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
But where are you addressing your claims that "Gang Rinpoche" is a religious name or that "Mount Kailash" is being used "since the first millenium"? Both of these claims remain baseless. Wareon (talk) 11:17, 24 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
It is a Tibetan Buddhist name; see our own article, see the quotes provided above and see McKay. The local/pre-Buddhist Bon name has always been Gangdise (Tise/Dise is the local mountain deity). The time of the application (of "Kailash") to the mountain was an approximation, after reading McKay, apprehending that Buddhist pilgrimages have been going on to it since at least the late first millenium (with an even longer association of the name Kailash and Tibet) and particular Hindu pilgrimages since at least the 13th-century (likely even earlier). Ultimately, the point was that the British certainly did not 'create' the name for the mountain and that regardless of the name's origins this has been and remains the most common name. Gotitbro (talk) 01:18, 26 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Strong support: Mount Kailash is a Hindutva POV name, for a mountain which has never been in India. The local, and more widely used name has always been Gang Rinpoche. Mount Kailash is an extreme WP:POVNAME, and is not neutral at all as an encyclopedic article title. Those who have also used Google's Ngram viewer to frame Mount Kailash as the common name have completely ignored the fact that Google is literally banned in China, so Ngram viewer completely omits all Chinese searches and viewership.

This is the exact same case with what happened at the Wikipedia article for Denali. While the United States federal government deemed the mountain to be Mount McKinley, Denali continued to be the WP:COMMONNAME, especially among the local people of Alaska, and so after a long move discussion, the article title remained as Denali. This is a very similar case EarthDude (wanna talk?) 14:14, 19 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Google being banned in China does not affect ngram's tracing of printed English-language corpus. Even beyond ngram, the common usage in English-language RS is pretty clear.
Denali and Mount McKinley are both prevalent in English. Though increasingly the former is more common (can be seen in an ngram comparision ). The move there then is unsurprising. The same obviously doesn't apply here. Gotitbro (talk) 18:00, 19 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
  • Support per WP:POVNAME. While one can find hundreds of results for both of the names, Mount Kailash certainly lacks neutrality in comparison with Gang Rinpoche because it has a strong Hindu religious affiliation. desmay (talk) 01:47, 20 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
    Just because something has some perceived religious affiliation is not a valid reason to remove or censor a common name. Its like someone asking you to change your name beacuse simehow it hurts their feelings. NPOV applies to how the subject is written about, while COMMONNAME applies to what the article is called. No need to change to something no one has ever heard of and no one will ever search for. 2409:40C1:49:84C7:8000:0:0:0 (talk) 07:13, 21 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
  • Support per WP POVNAME. The current title does seem to be endorsing the later invented origins that have no basis. Proposed title a neutral one. Segaton (talk) 14:39, 20 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
    Seem to be? The Sanskrit name 'Kailasa' for the peak far predates the Tibetian language let alone the 8th century Tibetian name for the same peak. 2409:40C1:49:84C7:8000:0:0:0 (talk) 07:21, 21 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Show evidence for it. Wareon (talk) 11:17, 24 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Umm, are you even serious? The first explicit mention of Kailasa as the abode of Shiva appears in the Ramayana, dated around the 7th century BCE. The first clear reference to Kailasa as Shiva's abode with a specific location in the Trans-Himalayas appears in the Mahabharata, particularly in the Vana Parva, which dates to the 5th or 4th century BCE. Even if you consider the most extreme late dates proposed for interpolations in these texts, such as the 3rd century CE for the Ramayana, they still predate the Tibetan language as well as the Tibetan Buddhist association and naming of the peak. Although the term 'Kailasa' does not appear directly in the Vedas, they describe a sacred peak using the term 'Meru' or 'Axis Mundi', which is also significant in both Buddhist and Jain traditions, who also associate it with Mount Kailasa. Unless there is verifiable evidence of a Tibetan name predating these Sanskrit references, it is misleading to claim Tibetan precedence in naming. I’d welcome any such evidence if it exists. 2409:40C1:A:A8C6:413C:2047:BB64:9535 (talk) 04:47, 26 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
From where did you discover these claims? They make no sense. Orientls (talk) 16:27, 29 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
For you nothing will ever make sense. I dont think you even bothered to check Kailasha page. You can also use google. The only thing that doesn’t make sense is the unattested and illogical claim that Hindu association is a later invention, for which not a single argument or source has been provided. Your two cents on every Hindu-related page also makes sense considering your background, but sadly your fringe-motivated assertion does not. 2409:40C1:103F:3A27:8000:0:0:0 (talk) 04:26, 30 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Note: Hinduism-related topics notice board, WikiProject Tibet, WikiProject Hinduism/Shaivism, WikiProject Mountains, WikiProject China, WikiProject Buddhism, and Noticeboard for India-related topics have been notified of this discussion. TarnishedPathtalk 12:07, 23 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
  • Comment, have added 'Gang Rinpoche' to the infobox title, and both names can reasonably be retained there no matter the outcome of this nomination. The page receives thousands of readers a day, and both names have attributable sources and adherents. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:58, 23 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
  • Oppose per COMMONNAME. The current name is overwhelming the one used in English-language sources, as seen in this ngram and the searches of Google Scholar and Books given above. As POVNAME says, "In such cases, the prevalence of the name [...] generally overrides concern that Wikipedia might appear as endorsing one side of an issue." Kanguole 13:50, 23 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
  • Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. "Kailash" is overwhelmingly the common name, as can be seen from the evidence posted here. I do not see concerns with WP:POVNAME here, just a matter of choosing an exonym over an endonym, which we do a lot. "Kailash" isn't a religious name any more than say, "Ganga", just an exonym used for the mountain by the people of India. Even if there were concerns, the overwhelming use of Kailash overrides them. Arnav Bhate (talkcontribs) 15:40, 23 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
  • Oppose - Thanks for notifying at Hinduism related noticeboard. Lot of discussion here already for Support / Opppose. Quick look at searches and sources shows that the current title reflects WP:COMMONNAME. Both names might be considered "religious" in origin, so neutrality concerns are unclear. For comparison, we don't rename Mount Everest to "Chomolungma" even though Everest is a colonial name. Hope this helps the discussion here. Asteramellus (talk) 19:12, 23 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
  • The name "Mount Everest" does not have a religious connection. Orientls (talk) 16:27, 29 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
    @Orientls Sorry, I am not clear what your point is. I am not saying "Mount Everest" has any "religious connection". It is an example that shows that Wikipedia follows WP:COMMONNAME from English-language reliable source, even when the name is "colonial" name and not the local or possibly more neutral name e.g. "Chomolungma".
    Also, support arguments suggesting current title reflects a POV seems not justified since seems both names have a "religious" origin/flavor. And, from what I understand after reading WP:POVTITLE, it does not apply for a name that is more widely sourced and recognized - the name "Kailash" is not a judgemental editorial opinion, as WP:POVTITLE addresses - it is the name of that mountain in WP:RS, regardless of whether the name has a religious origin. And, to name it something other than "Kailash" would be editorialization since it would be creating a title based on editor's judgment (such as perceived neutrality, preferring one religious name over other etc. rather than using verifiable reliable sources). Hope this helps. Asteramellus (talk) 01:46, 30 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
  • Oppose - What WP:POVNAME actually says is that "When the subject of an article is referred to mainly by a single common name, as evidenced through usage in a significant majority of English-language sources, Wikipedia generally follows the sources and uses that name as its article title". If all else were equal or even if it were at least close, Gang Rinpoche would probably have been the preferred title, but these two names are not equal in reliable sources. Kailash is preferred by CNN 1 2 3, the BBC 1 2 3, the New York Times 1 2 3, and the Associated Press 1 2 3. I could not find a single instance of any of these outlets ever releasing a single article with the words "Gang Rinpoche" in it. I am sympathetic to the nominator's desire for neutrality but in this case the sourcing is so lopsided in favor of Kailash that there's no case for it. Ladtrack (talk) 05:14, 24 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
  • Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME, since Kailash is the overwhelmingly WP:COMMONNAME. Ganges is not Ganga on wikipedia, Mount Everest is not Sagarmatha or Chomolungma, Himalayas (with an S) is not Himalaya (without n S), Adam's Bridge is not Rama Setu, Lake Mansarovar is not Mapam Yumtso, and Turkey is not Turkiye, China is not Zhongguo, and so on and so forth, because WP:COMMONNAME is applied. Strong oppose move based on WP:POVNAME because absolutely no reliable source (nil, nada, zero) has been provided that backs this assertion. Some editors have even called 'Kailash' a "Hindutva POV" name, but none of them has provided even a single WP:RS that makes this assertion. As such, calling it a POV name, and especially calling it a "Hindutva POV" name, is completely WP:OR. --UnpetitproleX (talk) 21:39, 27 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
    Also adding that contrary to being a common name for the mountain, Gang Rinpoche may not even be the most common Tibetan name for it. As Alex McKay (a scholar of Indo-Tibetan history) notes in Kailas Histories (2015, p. 2): "Nor was Kailas a place especially exalted by Tibetans, for whom (Gangs)Tise (Ti se), as they most commonly termed it, was just one of a number of mountains understood by Buddhists as the residence of a major Tantric deity." Note also that the title of the book is Kailas Histories, and throughout the book as also in the above quote McKay calls it 'Kailas' when generally referring to the mountain, and 'Tise' or other Tibetan names only when specifically referring to Tibetan usage (this he also addresses on page 19). If 'Kailash' was a "Hindutva POV" name, I am sure a scholar such as McKay would have written that in such a book. UnpetitproleX (talk) 22:16, 27 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
  • Support per WP:POVTITLE. Clearly a more neutral title in comparison with "Mount Kailash". Orientls (talk) 16:27, 29 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

america is named after amritchand

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Hindu writers have been giving there own names to literally everything the mountain is in tibet should use native name or do indians own wikipedia 🤔 ~2026-38499-02 (talk) 20:28, 6 July 2026 (UTC)Reply

The title was extensively discussed right above and the current title decided to be the WP:COMMONNAME as a result of a WP:RFC. See also WP:NOTAFORUM, and please also avoid accusations of misconduct based solely on race, ethnicity, religion or nationality etc. UnpetitproleX (talk) 23:30, 20 July 2026 (UTC)Reply