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Gulag outside USSR

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The article say (unref) "There were several camps outside the Soviet Union, in Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Poland, and Mongolia, which were under the direct control of the Gulag."

I am pretty much sure this is a confusion, because in layman's perception, all Soviet camps are GULAG. Indeed, there were NKVD special camps in Germany 1945–1950, NKVD filtration camps, POW camps of the GUPVI, etc. - but these were outside Gulag jurisdiction.
If there were such, definetely a separate section there must be.--Altenmann >talk 20:57, 20 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Historiography section inaccurate summation of Barnes's position and is also confusing

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I noticed a bunch of small inaccuracies and confusing layouts in the list at the top of the historiography section. I will try to lay out my suggestions clearly, apologies if this is unclear.

1. The article currently states: "According to historian Stephen Barnes, the origins and functions of the Gulag can be looked at in four major ways:" and goes on to summarize the moral, political, and economic explanations, and then adds a summary of Barnes's position as well. First, he doesn't say they "can be looked at," he says scholars have understood the Gulag in three related but distinct ways. So I would change that sentence to be "According to historian Stephen Barnes, scholars have understood the origins and functions of the Gulag in three overlapping ways:" and then list the three he outlines, and then add a line that states "Barnes argues instead" before the fourth point (addressed in 3 below).

2. The book is critical the economic, political, and moral readings that he lists, particularly the economic. The book goes to lengths to say that the economic model is incorrect, pointing to the Gulag system's awareness of the inefficiencies and arguing that education and redemption through labor were its purpose. The author is particularly critical of Anne Applebaum's Gulag, arguing against her economic-based understanding of the system throughout the book and specifically criticizing her emphasis on Stalin as the sole motive force (he does this in at least two end notes). If we are summarizing Barnes's position, I think it would make sense to include that he disagrees with Applebaum? And Solzhenitsyn too, for that matter (Barnes: "... I call on Solzhenitsyn's insights extensively but cautiously. His work is problematic in some ways..."). I don't have a change x to y proposal here because I am not familiar with how these sorts of things are supposed to be handled on history articles.

3. I would say the article's text offers a simplified version of Barnes's thesis. He does mention "'cleansing' the social body of hostile elements," but the book is called Death and Redemption for a reason; a central claim, emphasized again and again in the work, is the idea of education and redemptive labor. He argues throughout that, after arrest, "the social body's filth would either be purified (and returned to the body politic) or cast-out (through death)." He points out repeatedly when the Gulag made notable and expensive efforts to educate and "redeem" the prisoners, refusing to cut the educational program even to save costs or increase labor. When things went wrong, it was almost always seen as insufficient education.

I would propose changing the last bullet point to: "Finally, Barnes advances his own, fourth explanation, which situates the Gulag in the context of modern projects of 'cleansing' the social body of hostile elements, either to educate and redeem prisoners (allowing them to be released) or permanently removing them from Soviet life.

As I mention above, I'm not a hugely experienced editor so I don't know the best way to go about these sorts of changes. But I do think the current version of the article is not an accurate summary of his position (also, based on the degree to which he as a scholar criticizes Applebaum's book, I wonder the degree to which this article over-relies on her work, but that is a separate topic).  Preceding unsigned comment added by Itsasatire (talkcontribs) 14:08, 9 August 2026 (UTC)Reply