Template talk:Cite gns

Archiving largely doesn't work

@Trappist the monk: The archive date I specified in the template is usually not the date that archive.org actually archived the GNS page. It's the date it archived the Mount Logan page. It will return an archive that is closest to that date: the current template is a bit misleading.

I did a spot check of a few pages that use this template: a larger issue is that archive.org has often archived error messages. I suspect this template worked well in 2010 when Droll created it, but largely decayed by 2020. I also investigated whether you can deep link to the current GNS server, but didn't had any success.

I think we're going to have to go through and replace uses of this template with alternate citations. — hike395 (talk) 13:20, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

I'm inclined to agree.

Because an embedded |archive-url= isn't guaranteed to work for all uses of {{cite gns}}, I have deleted it from the template. The template uses Module:Template wrapper so we can rewrite the individual {{cite gns}} templates in mainspace. Here is the example template from ~/doc:

{{cite gns |32FA8842BEDB3774E0440003BA962ED3 |Mount Logan |2011-05-22 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20201114173616/https://geonames.nga.mil/namesgaz/detaillinksearch.asp?G_NAME=%27{{urlencode:32FA8842BEDB3774E0440003BA962ED3}}%27&Diacritics=DC |archive-date=2020-11-14}}

"Mount Logan". GEOnet Names Server. Archived from the original on 2020-11-14. Retrieved 2011-05-22.

probably don't need the {{urlencode:}} magic word unless the id has spaces...

As I write this, there are 117 articles that use this template. We can pick away at that list and simply add appropriate |archive-url= and |archive-date= parameters. We might then recruit WP:AWB to replace {{cite gns}} templates that have archive snapshots with equivalent {{cite web}} templates.

WP:TFD first? or TFD after?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 14:17, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

I've been picking away at the template, and so far there are no helpful uses: the archive only has stored broken results, and in the one case (Mount Popomanaseu) where it did have a result, it didn't support the fact where the citation was placed. AFAICT, this template is mostly used as an reference for small towns in Afghanistan --- even if the archiving did work, I doubt it actually would have supported the articles.

@Trappist the monk: If you concur, I will create an AWB run to replace mainspace uses with {{cn}} and then we can take it to TFD. Does that sound acceptable to you? (Any other editors, of course, can chime in) — hike395 (talk) 14:36, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

Later --- poking around some more, the template is used as a reference for coordinates for settlements in countries other than Afghanistan, e.g., in Sri Lanka for Agalawatta. Archiving appears to work for Agalawatta, but the archived page does not have coordinate data. — hike395 (talk) 14:42, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

One might argue that we should add {{dead link}} rather than replace {{cite gns}} with {{citation needed}}. WP:KDL would have us keep these dead references because, perhaps, once-upon-a-time, the now-dead source may have supported the text in our article. We should also edit the ~/doc page to reflect the current deadness of GNS and the attendant lack of useable archived snapshots.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 17:53, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

I added {{dead link}} to the template, and marked the template with {{Deprecated template}} to discourage use. However, I'm skeptical about the overall usage of this template --- it seems to be used to justify the existence and status of settlements, and the coordinates of various geographic entities. When available, the archived reference would not verify those sorts of claims.

My plan is to go through the uses one-by-one and see if the usage is solid or shaky. If the usage seems suspect, I'll remove the template and mark the article with {{refimprove}} and/or {{cn}}. I'll report back what I've found. — hike395 (talk) 19:47, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

Restored functionality

After more experimentation, I restored (partial) functionality. The old ID from 2010 is no longer correct: I found the URL which does full-text searching, which may return multiple entries. The resulting HTML can contain multiple fields that match the |name= parameter. The |id= parameter is now ignored. For an example of current (correct) usage, see Kohsan.

Geonames is a reliable source for mapping a name to coordinates. The large majority of uses of this template are not for that case. My plan is to still go through and check to see whether the template is used in the correct context. If not, I'm planning to remove it and replace with {{cn}} (perhaps tagging the article as I go). — hike395 (talk) 15:48, 30 May 2026 (UTC)