Talk:Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart

Trim infobox details

In this previous discussion above, that makes no consensus. But its too excessive, trivial, and no original research. This current consensus via RfC to include a minimal infobox as per MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE. Unlike other composers with minimal infoboxes, including Johann Sebastian Bach, Ludwig van Beethoven, etc. Absolutiva 06:34, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

Agreed, per above. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:14, 11 March 2026 (UTC)

Pet starling

The sentence "He enjoyed billiards, dancing, and kept pets, including a canary, a starling, a dog, and a horse for recreational riding" should have the embedded link on "a starling" corrected to point to the more specific wiki article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozart's_starling ~2026-17665-94 (talk) 23:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

Sorry, but I can't understand what you are saying. The word "starling" as you describe it is already linked to Mozart's starling. Opus33 (talk) 23:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

What's in a name?

In the lead, there is mention of Le nozze di Figaro and Die Zauberflöte. Elsewhere in the article, they are referred to as The Marriage of Figaro and The Magic Flute. Fair enough, but for consistency's sake, shouldn't they the same throughout the article? What does the MOS say? Charlie Faust (talk) 23:55, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

I understand why our articles on operas sometimes use their English names, but I also find it a bit grating if those operas in the composers' articles are named that way. Obviously, they didn't use those, so in the interest of authenticity and encyclopaedic rigour, I prefer the original spelling in this and other biographies. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

premiere poster

I agree with Michael, - change them to original. This is consistent with FAs Wagner and Rossini. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:04, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

I tend to agree. Would it be worth including the English translations of the titles in parentheses? Charlie Faust (talk) 13:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

Not when mentioned in the lead without. There's a link ;) - if you ask me, - for Rossini, The Barber is given in translation in brackets. Both ways work. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:50, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

OK. I notice some inconsistency in how instrumental works are cited. There is mention of A minor piano sonata, K. 310/300d. Why not refer to it as Piano Sonata No. 8? Charlie Faust (talk) 14:04, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

Other works are referred to by K. numbers alone: "The last three—K. 216, K. 218, K. 219—are staples of the modern repertoire.." Brevity is admirable, but might this be too concise? Charlie Faust (talk) 14:08, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

I think the examples you quote are fine. Improving flow and avoiding repetition enhance the prose. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 14:25, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

I agree. It's clear in context that K. 216 is a violin sonata. I wonder about the A minor piano sonata. The WP page is titled Piano Sonata No. 8. For consistency's sake, why not call it that? What does the MOS say? Charlie Faust (talk) 14:29, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

But yes, I agree that listing the original language title is better, especially when there's a link. Charlie Faust (talk) 14:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

For operas, would it be worth listing the English translation after the title? The page for Das Rheingold gives us The Rhinegold immediately after the title in parentheses. Might be worth including the English translation, at least the first time it's mentioned... Charlie Faust (talk) 20:57, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

I think that if there's a link, a reader can be pretty sure to find translation in the linked article. I don't think that a revelation happens when we are told that Rheingold means Rhinegold ;) - For many operas, the title is more like a name, while the actual meaning seems less important. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:23, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

No, probably not. No sense in translating the titles of Tristan und Isolde or Hansel und Grettel. It might be worth noting that Götterdammerung translates to Twilight of the Gods, though, or that Die Zauberflöte translates to The Magic Flute. Consistency is key. Charlie Faust (talk) 21:53, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

Yes, and for me, consistency means adhering to the name we've chosen as the title of the relevant article. We have articles on The Marriage of Figaro and The Magic Flute. We do not have articles on Le nozze di Figaro or Die Zauberflöte. What's the point of having a (sometimes exhaustive) process to establish a consensus for the name of the article in question, if that's just ignored when we come to referring to that topic in other articles? Sure, we have redirects, but that's really beside the point here. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

Well, fair enough, but some operas are referred to by title in their original language; see Così fan tutte. Maybe we should just go with how its commonly referred to in English speaking countries (this is an English language Wiki, after all...) Charlie Faust (talk) 23:05, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

That's not relevant to my point at all. Any decisions about how we name an opera (or anything else) is a matter for the relevant article. Of course some operas are always referred to by their original-language names; any proposal to call an article "They're All Doing It" or "The Bohemian Woman" would fail miserably. But many others are known by both their original and translated titles, the two Mozart operas in question being good examples. Where's the correct forum to decide? The article, nowhere else. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 05:43, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

Of course the forum to decide an article's name is the article's talk page. Still, I find it grating to read in WAM's biography about "his works, notably The Magic Flute" – he knew no such thing. Redirects have a purpose. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 07:37, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

@Michael Bednarek we talk about him living in Vienna, not Wien. Translating the titles into their common English names when they have them, seems analoguous Furius (talk) 06:13, 19 April 2026 (UTC)

I agree with Michael Bednarek: while the article title has to be the common name, the sentence "Mozart composed The Magic Flute." is nonsense, - he composed Die Zauberflöte. Please restore, with English in brackets if we have to. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:55, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

@JackofOz I strongly agree with this. The guiding principle in referring to topics on which we have an article should be to use the name of our article, which has been determined by WP:COMMON NAME. Furius (talk) 06:11, 19 April 2026 (UTC)

I agree that consistency within an article is important, but I don't think this needs consistency across every composer. For both productions and in academia it's much more common to see The Magic Flute instead of Die Zauberflote etc., at least in my remembered experience. It also seems a bit perverse to use the non-English names when the article titles are all in English, presumably because they're the WP:COMMONNAME in the Anglosphere. Ligaturama (talk) 22:52, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

You sold me. Charlie Faust (talk) 23:18, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

I dissent. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 07:37, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

So long as we don't end up with Mr John. Johnbod (talk) 03:46, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

Nobody's suggesting we translate ALL opera titles to English. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 05:45, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

I dissent as well, as explained above, and mentioned Wagner and Rossini. Decent opera houses in 2026 announce the original titles Met, NYC Venice Tokyo and sing in the original language. Perhaps we should think about page moves, but I'd be content with using the redirects. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:55, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

I agree with Gerda. The opera titles should be in the language of the original libretti, in Mozart's case Italian and German. Grimes2 08:14, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

Some foreign films are referred to by their original title (Ikiru), some by their English title (The Seven Samurai). Or, conversely, 8 1/2 and La Dolce Vita. Either way, pages for Kurosawa or Fellini would refer to them by the title commonly used in English speaking countries.

Così fan tutte is commonly referred to by that name, perhaps because it doesn't translate well into English. But Die Zauberflöte is commonly referred to as The Magic Flute.

I won't change until consensus has been reached. Charlie Faust (talk) 13:59, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

From WP:NCOPERA

• The name of the opera should be in its original language except:
  • When the opera is commonly known in English-speaking nations by another title (i.e. The Marriage of Figaro).
  • When the opera's full original title is widely known in an abbreviated form (i.e. I Lombardi).

So: The Magic Flute. Grimes2 15:07, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

Do you understand that "commonly referred to" or "article title" (as by project opera) is a completely different statement than "Mozart composed ..." in the composer's article. His creation was setting a text in German, which was novel at the time (when Italian opera dominated), and should show. Even if it was not novel at the time, we better show. It compares to saying someone was born in Breslau, for historical precision, even if that city is now commonly known as Wrocław. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

I think that settles it. Bach didn't call Das wohltemperierte Klavier The Well-Tempered Clavier, but that's how it's referred to on his page, which seems reasonable for an English language WP. Charlie Faust (talk) 15:07, 20 April 2026 (UTC)

I think that is a different case, because it's purely instrumental music. Opera, however, is sung to words in a language, and saying Le nozze di Figaro and Die Zauberflöte informs that one is in Italian and the other in German. Fine with the familiar titles in brackets. Bach's cantatas also are named in their original languages, most in German, one in Latin, one in Italian. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:24, 20 April 2026 (UTC)

Bach's h-Moll-Messe is referred to as Mass in B Minor on his page. Charlie Faust (talk) 16:37, 20 April 2026 (UTC)

That is a generic title, not a piece name. Most masses are in Latin, no information per title needed. He didn't give that piece any title, - Missa - as on the title page - is just the name of the first book of four, containing the 1733 Kyrie and Gloria. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:42, 20 April 2026 (UTC)

I tend to agree, because it makes the content more accessible to the reader. MONTENSEM (talk) 16:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

Johannes Chrysostomus Wolfgang Gottlieb Mozart

Why is his baptismal name not mentioned? ~2026-27449-10 (talk) 22:58, 31 July 2026 (UTC)

It is - see note [b] (right after his name in the first line). See also Mozart's name linked in the note. Antandrus (talk) 23:55, 31 July 2026 (UTC)