Talk:7.92×57mm Mauser

Ballistic performance

The examples of ballistic performance all seem to be rather "hot" loadings; I guess I was expecting to see the standard WW2-era military loadings producing a muzzle velocity of 750-800 m/s which I eventually found in a (somewhat broken) table further down the page, though I accept "I was expecting to see" is a little subjective. Any reason why the five selected for the infobox are what they are, though? --Vometia (talk) 03:31, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

The rimmed cartridge is a JRS, not IRS.

I am not a Wikipedia editor but someone should correct this error. I checked the archive pages and it has been wrong for many years. This error occurs on Production History - Variants, in the Civilian use section body and photo caption, on The 7.92×57mm Mauser as parent case photo caption. In the photo you can actually see the JRS letters on the cartridge. If you examine the pdf document for Citation 1 it shows JRS not IRS many times within the document. Admittedly the German CIP document in Table II for Citation 12 does show IRS. I will assume that is a typo in the document or perhaps a German language variation. Regardless JRS is the correct designation. 2601:5C2:200:122E:40B5:3075:C62E:29AF (talk) 17:03, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

IRS is in fact the correct caption in this case. As quoted under the "Cartridge naming," section,

"The letter "J" often mentioned by English speaking sources is actually an "I" for Infanterie (German for "infantry"). A stamped "I" at the cartridge bottom in writing styles used in the past in Germany could be easily mistaken for a "J". Even in the 21st century the "I" is often substituted by a "J" in English speaking communities and German ammunition manufacturers often write "JS" instead of "IS" to avoid confusing customers."

The differing citations can be explained by this mistake's prevalence in English sources. Cnkcnk123 (talk) 10:06, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

I do not agree with the naming.

The name of the article should be 8 x 57 IS. That is the cartridge produced today. There are different military names according to the country using it. The German name for the older version with the slightly smaller bore, is Patrone 88. The German military name for the newer version was S-Patrone. The cartridge was used by various armed forces with various names. The name today for the civilian round is 8 x 57 IS, both by SAAMI and C.I.P. Jochum (talk) 23:26, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

It's probably from the British Army naming where it was always 7.92 mm. The UK produced gigantic quantities of the stuff as it was the standard ammunition for tanks and armoured vehicles throughout WW2 up to 1960, I think, and was used in Besa and Browning guns. A few of the latter remained in use even after the L7 GPMG was adopted and had the 7.92 identifier struck out when they were converted to 7.62 mm NATO. --Vometia (talk) 12:21, 18 August 2025 (UTC)

The original name does not have 7,92 x 57. The CIP designation does not have any 7,92. So it is either S Patrone military or 8 x 57 IS civil. 7,92 x 57 was never used in Germany and is therefore ridiculous.

The cartridge is designed in Germany and the name should follow German convention. What the British or any other country used is irrelevant.

I will wait some time and than change the designation of this article. Jochum (talk) 22:09, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

The point of relevance is that this is the English wikipaedia and it's called 7.92mm in English: you'd have a point if this was the German wikipaedia but it's not. 7.92mm was its official designation as one of the official British Army's two rifle calibre cartridges from the 1930s through to 1960, infantry using .303 and armour 7.92. AFAIK none of the original naming was nominal calibre × length in mm, but that's what it is and if you change it it'll just introduce obfuscation rather than anything actually useful. It seems something of an absurdity but I suppose the likes of WP:ENGVAR didn't quite imagine this scenario. *shurg* etc. --Vometia (talk) 18:01, 5 October 2025 (UTC)

Claim of low bolt thrust

I think the claim, that the Patrone-S has a low bolt thrust is nonsense. It has a comparable pressure to most its contemporaries. 300 MPA or 43,511 psi. Its inside area of the bolt head is exactly the same as on the 30-06, as the 30-06 case is essentially a copy of the case 8 x 57 case slightly elongated. It is not possible to drive a 10 g (154 gr) bullet out of the 57 mm case to 878 m/s (2880 fps) and 3816 J (2814 ft*lbf) at the muzzle, with low pressure. That is a rather hefty load. That matches or exceeds the 30-06, that has a bigger case. The bolt thrust is dependent on max pressure multiplied by the bolt face. The bolt face on the 30-06 is the same, the performance is similar and as the 30-06 case has more volume, it should operate with a lower pressure. Jochum (talk) 01:23, 11 June 2025 (UTC)