Template talk:WikiProject Yugoslavia

Template-protected edit request on 26 July 2023

Relink [[Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia|Yugoslavia]] to just [[Yugoslavia]]. Scope of the WikiProject Yugoslavia covers both systems of government and periods of the former country. –Vipz (talk) 20:07, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

 Completed. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 04:44, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Edit request 23 January 2025

Description of suggested change: Add WikiProjects Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Kosovo, Montenegro, North Macedonia, Serbia, Slovenia as task forces of WikiProject Yugoslavia in the style of {{WikiProject Africa}}. The aim of this change is decluttering Yugoslavia-related talk pages of all those republic-specific WikiProject banners when the areas of interest on the topic overlap. See the implementation of code collapsed below on Template:WikiProject Yugoslavia/sandbox.

Diff:

−

+

|TF_COLLAPSE=0|tf 1={{{Bosnia and Herzegovina|}}} |TF_1_LINK = Wikipedia:WikiProject Bosnia and Herzegovina |TF_1_NAME = WikiProject Bosnia and Herzegovina |TF_1_IMAGE = Coat of arms of Bosnia and Herzegovina.svg |TF_1_PORTAL = Bosnia and Herzegovina |TF_1_QUALITY = yes |tf 1 importance={{{Bosnia and Herzegovina-importance|}}} |TF_1_ASSESSMENT_CAT = Bosnia and Herzegovina articles |TF_1_MAIN_CAT = WikiProject Bosnia and Herzegovina articles |TF_1_NESTED = Bosnia and Herzegovina|tf 2={{{Croatia|}}} |TF_2_LINK = Wikipedia:WikiProject Croatia |TF_2_NAME = WikiProject Croatia |TF_2_IMAGE = WPCRO Logo 2014 c.svg |TF_2_PORTAL = Croatia |TF_2_QUALITY = yes |tf 2 importance={{{Croatia-importance|}}} |TF_2_ASSESSMENT_CAT = Croatia articles |TF_2_MAIN_CAT = WikiProject Croatia articles |TF_2_NESTED = Croatia|tf 3={{{Kosovo|}}} |TF_3_LINK = Wikipedia:WikiProject Kosovo |TF_3_NAME = WikiProject Kosovo |TF_3_IMAGE = Kosovo-Flagmap.svg |TF_3_PORTAL = |TF_3_QUALITY = yes |tf 3 importance={{{Kosovo-importance|}}} |TF_3_ASSESSMENT_CAT = Kosovo articles |TF_3_MAIN_CAT = WikiProject Kosovo articles |TF_3_NESTED = Kosovo|tf 4={{{Montenegro|}}} |TF_4_LINK = Wikipedia:WikiProject Montenegro |TF_4_NAME = WikiProject Montenegro |TF_4_IMAGE = Flag of Montenegro.svg |TF_4_PORTAL = |TF_4_QUALITY = yes |tf 4 importance={{{Montenegro-importance|}}} |TF_4_ASSESSMENT_CAT = Montenegro articles |TF_4_MAIN_CAT = WikiProject Montenegro articles |TF_4_NESTED = Montenegro|tf 5={{{North Macedonia|}}} |TF_5_LINK = Wikipedia:WikiProject North Macedonia |TF_5_NAME = WikiProject North Macedonia |TF_5_IMAGE = WikiProject North Macedonia logo.svg |TF_5_PORTAL = North Macedonia |TF_5_QUALITY = yes |tf 5 importance={{{North Macedonia-importance|}}} |TF_5_ASSESSMENT_CAT = North Macedonia articles |TF_5_MAIN_CAT = WikiProject North Macedonia articles |TF_5_NESTED = North Macedonia|tf 6={{{Serbia|}}} |TF_6_LINK = Wikipedia:WikiProject Serbia |TF_6_NAME = WikiProject Serbia |TF_6_IMAGE = Coat of arms of Serbia.svg |TF_6_PORTAL = Serbia |TF_6_QUALITY = yes |tf 6 importance={{{Serbia-importance|}}} |TF_6_ASSESSMENT_CAT = Serbia articles |TF_6_MAIN_CAT = WikiProject Serbia articles |TF_6_NESTED = Serbia|tf 7={{{Slovenia|}}} |TF_7_LINK = Wikipedia:WikiProject Slovenia |TF_7_NAME = WikiProject Slovenia |TF_7_IMAGE = Flag of Slovenia.svg |TF_7_PORTAL = Slovenia |TF_7_QUALITY = yes |tf 7 importance={{{Slovenia-importance|}}} |TF_7_ASSESSMENT_CAT = Slovenia articles |TF_7_MAIN_CAT = WikiProject Slovenia articles |TF_7_NESTED = Slovenia

–Vipz (talk) 15:46, 23 January 2025 (UTC)

 Completed. Please update the documentation as needed. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 20:14, 24 January 2025 (UTC)

Discussion after the implementation

This is a spectacularly bad idea.

The comparison with the WikiProject Africa is awful. If those wikiprojects were added as "associated" to WikiProject Europe, that would be comparable to the Africa example, but meaningless. There is no reasonable person denying Tunisia is a part of Africa. WikiProjects Montenegro, Serbia, Croatia etc. are in no way associated with WikiProject Yugoslavia and there is a very narrow overlap of their scopes. This decision will likely result in numerous disputes and ill-will for zero practical gain if it stands. At any rate a wider, a much wider consensus should have been sought for such modifications in fields that were often subject of disputes, and are likely to produce disputes for - let's repeat it no practical purpose.Tomobe03 (talk) 11:18, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

Moved from User talk:Tomobe03 § Associated WikiProjects within {{WikiProject Yugoslavia}}

Citing myself from the message left on the user talk page linked above:

[...] The intention behind this feature is reducing banner blindness on Yugoslavia-related talk pages. Talk:Yugoslavia for example is of relevance first and foremost to WikiProject Yugoslavia, but then to all seven of post-Yugoslav country WikiProjects as well. Used sparingly, I consider nesting these WikiProject banners within WikiProject Yugoslavia appropriate only where the topic is non-contemporary and is of utmost relevance to Yugoslavia, and then to one or several contemporary countries that used to be federal units of Yugoslavia (hence nesting being inappropriate on e.g. Talk:Serbo-Croatian). I am wary of implications but believe the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. [...]

I have implemented the feature on a small number of talk pages for now, among them Talk:Yugoslavia, Talk:Kingdom of Yugoslavia, Talk:Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, Talk:League of Communists of Yugoslavia, Talk:World War II in Yugoslavia, and Talk:Josip Broz Tito. For reasons already stated, I do not consider this modification to have "zero practical gain" or "no practical purpose". I will subject it to a wider consensus. –Vipz (talk) 11:50, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

Banner blindness is not an issue in talk pages since they are neither contents (discussion) nor ads targeted at audience coming in for the contents. As regards clutter, there already is a technical solution - collapsing the banner shell by default if necessary. WP:BROKE advises against finding another solution to the issue.

The problem is that nesting implies hierarchy (inequality) where there is none.

Using the solution "sparingly" is vague designation and while the requesting editor may exercise excellent judgment in this regard, it is likely that a different user may apply a different judgment altogether causing an unnecessary dispute/workload for others for no practical purpose.

Clearly any WikiProject (i.e. any editor associated with the WikiProject) may decide to have an article within the particular WikiProject, but no WikiProject should decide to "hide" other WikiProject banners to make its own more prominent. That's simply wrong.

As an aside (tangentially related), the requesting editor noted they have applied the new technical solution to Josip Broz Tito article. Regardless of opinions of such solution being warranted, the WPYugoslavia page specifically lists types of articles within its scope - and it contains no biographies. Therefore, it is clear that the application of the nesting will be arbitrary, no matter of the definition of sparing use.

The argument that the territories being subject of concern of the seven "associated" projects were federal subjects at the time is flawed. If it were valid, all articles on contemporary events in Croatia, Slovenia... as well as Italy, France etc. should be nested within the Wikipedia:WikiProject European Union. It is not done either because it would also be a bad idea.

Overall, poor outcomes overwhelmingly outweigh good ones (if any exist at all). Tomobe03 (talk) 12:21, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

To editors Tomobe03 and Vipz: the two previous edits, this one and the one in the section below, have this edit has been  removed pending a consensus to restore it them. Said consensus should be achieved before using the {{Edit template-protected}} template again. Editors are encouraged to do everything they can to come to an agreement on this issue. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 13:03, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

Edit request 25 January 2025

Description of suggested change: Remove custom main text for standardization purposes. Customize the header to present other WikiProjects that support the article as Associated WikiProjects rather than Associated task forces. See diff in the sandbox.

Diff:

−

|MAIN_TEXT = '''{{SUBJECTPAGENAME}}''' is within the scope of '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Yugoslavia|WikiProject Yugoslavia]]''', a collaborative effort to improve the Wikipedia coverage of articles related to [[Yugoslavia]] and its nations. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.

+

−

+

|TF_HEADER=Associated WikiProjects:

–Vipz (talk) 07:15, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

 Completed. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 03:55, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

@Paine Ellsworth I believe the removal of custom main text can be safely reinstated. –Vipz (talk) 13:10, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

 Reinstated. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 13:33, 26 January 2025 (UTC)