Talk:Yi Sun-sin

Maybe an addition to Cultural depections section?

Star Trek canon has a starship named the Yi Sun-Sin. There was a visual reference to the ship in Star Trek: Picard Season 3 Episode 9. Also it is confirmed in this Star Trek database https://memory-gamma.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Yi_Sun-Sin 18:27, 14 April 2022 06:33 UTC — Preceding unsigned comment added by Justinly604 (talk • contribs) 06:44, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 July 2025

Admiral Yi Sun sin’s success during the Imjin War (1592–1598) has often been tied to his mastery of naval innovation and leadership—yet much remains underrepresented in popular summaries of his life. For example, Yi's deployment of the turtle ship (geobukseon) was part of a larger maritime reorganization. He introduced rigorous training schedules and strict discipline, ensuring consistent crew performance under pressure—an innovation that turned uncoordinated coastal vessels into a formidable naval force (Tucker, 2010).

Beyond ship design, Yi’s strategic doctrine revolved around formations like the “crane wing” and “long snake,” enabling Korean forces to exploit narrow straits and tidal currents. This environmental awareness became particularly effective in the Battle of Hansan Island, where Yi's fleet shattered a large Japanese contingent with minimal losses. These tactics underscore his appreciation for marrying technology with terrain-specific strategy—intertwining knowledge of geography with innovative ship capabilities (Tucker, 2010).

Politically, Admiral Yi navigated court intrigues with resilience. Despite his record, he endured impeachment and temporary loss of command due to powerful factions at the royal court. His return to service after disastrous naval defeats under other commanders testifies to his unique reputation and effectiveness. Upon reinstatement, Yi restructured the navy swiftly, restoring morale and readiness—demonstrating his influence was not merely technological, but administrative and organizational (Tucker, 2010).

Lee (2010) emphasizes the intangible authoritativeness Yi cultivated. Throughout the conflict, Yi’s composure under fire and strict enforcement of ethical behavior created a culture of accountability among mariners, fostering trust and breaking from previous lax norms. By valuing merit over aristocratic lineage in his promotions, Yi democratized naval command—strengthening loyalty across rank and class lines, and contributing to a legacy that extended beyond battlefield legend (Lee, 2010).

Turner’s 2010 entry also notes Yi’s diplomatic acumen. He coordinated effectively with Ming Chinese allies through commanders such as Chen Lin, enabling combined assaults like those at Noryang. Yi’s emphasis on shared intelligence and integrated tactics reflected an advanced military coordination uncommon in early modern East Asia (Tucker, 2010).

Posthumously, Yi’s strategic systems endured. Lee (2010) traces how later Korean naval doctrine retained his emphasis on combined ship types, tidal intelligence, and crew training. This school of thought endured through the Chosŏn era and even influenced naval modernization movements in the late nineteenth century—highlighting Yi's long-term impact on Korean military culture.

In sum, Yi Sun sin’s legacy transcends his undefeated record at sea. His institutional reforms, diplomatic coordination, and creation of a merit-based naval culture reshaped Korean maritime defense and left a strategic heritage still visible in East Asian naval studies (Lee, 2010; Tucker, 2010). Ctaing27 (talk) 20:21, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Tenshi! (Talk page) 21:16, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

Infobox image

The infobox image is pretty awful; low res and poorly cropped. Can we find something better?

On namuwiki, the footnote on the infobox image caption seems to say that there are no surviving contemporary depictions of Yi left. Think would need to be verified.

@Malerisch @CountHacker; if you're free would appreciate help. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 03:39, 23 August 2025 (UTC)

There's quite a bit of discussion over images of Yi Sun-sin; go into more detail. The current image appears to be the oldest extant portrait of Yi Sun-sin (not just a photo of a portrait that's gone missing) , and according to the linked sources, it's true that no contemporary depictions of him remain. There are higher quality versions of the currrent infobox portrait available: from Namuwiki, and from . Malerisch (talk) 11:16, 23 August 2025 (UTC)

Oh nice. Since that oldest extant portrait is not original anyway, maybe there's an argument that a newer more realistic portrait may be more appropriate. Per WP:LEADIMAGE, we want an image of Yi that is the most familiar/least surprising to readers. I'd argue this portrait is unusual; if you search him on internet images this portrait isn't really a major source for visualizations of him. I think the most major common image of him is his statue in Gwanghwamun (many modern illustrations of him seem to be based on this), but that's copyrighted due to freedom of panorama restrictions. There's also his standard portrait, which is probably copyrighted? Is there anything else? grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 14:15, 23 August 2025 (UTC)

I did some vigorous searching but a little disappointed with how it turned out. Uploaded the 1918 painting by An Chungsik. I wish I could have gotten a higher res scan, but Kansong Art Museum, which supposedly has the painting, doesn't have it available on their website. A lot of the other 20th century paintings are, to my knowledge, still copyrighted. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 23:47, 23 August 2025 (UTC)

Rewrite

Planning on rewriting this article in near future. There's some workable stuff here, but just the prose and sourcing needs a heavy scrub. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 03:48, 23 August 2025 (UTC)

@Malerisch Are you willing to help me search for authoritative sources on Yi again? My current list looks like this: User:Grapesurgeon/Yi Sun-sin#Sources grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 20:05, 3 September 2025 (UTC)

Grapesurgeon Apologies for the very late reply! The English sources you listed are likely the best available ones; unfortunately, I don't think there are any good modern English-language biographies. In Korean, I'd probably consider adding 이순신 평전 (2012) by 이민웅 , which is a detailed biography of Yi Sun-sin written by a longtime Korean history professor at the Korea Naval Academy . It has positive reviews that emphasize its objectivity: . The 역사 속의 이순신: 그 기억의 어제와 오늘 book that you found lists a bunch of other books about Yi Sun-sin, but they don't seem to be as definitive as this one. There's also some Chosun articles listing other Yi Sun-sin–related books that may or may not be useful: (the second link mentions 이순신 평전). Malerisch (talk) 21:23, 3 December 2025 (UTC)

One side note: Kim Jong-dae is a former justice of the Constitutional Court of Korea who has written several books on Yi Sun-sin. They apparently inspired Kim Han-min to create his Yi Sun-sin movie trilogy , and his main biography is even available as an English translation: . But these are popular history works (Kim Jong-dae is not a historian) and don't seem to be written to an academic standard. Malerisch (talk) 22:03, 3 December 2025 (UTC)

No worries on delayed reply, thank you for doing this :)

I actually bought Kim Jong-dae's English-language book; gave it a chance in hopes it'd be serious even if he's an amateur historian. Unfortunately it's a bit of a hagiography and didn't measure up to what I had hoped.

You're right there's no good modern English-language biographies of Yi. The Imjin War book by Samuel Hawley is probably one of the better ones although it's not a full biography of Yi, but Hawley's also not like a renowned historian or anything. It's still a decent book though; probably the most comprehensive on the topic.

I've put the Yi Sun-sin project on hold for now, will return to it at some point. grapesurgeon (talk) 22:32, 6 December 2025 (UTC)

Understood. I did find some less-than-positive reviews of Hawley's work, though, which makes me wary of relying on him too much. For example, Kenneth M. Swope, the author of another Imjin War book you have listed, wrote that Hawley's book has the outward appearance of a monograph, including its impressive length, but the author is not a historian and has apparently based his work almost entirely on others' translations of primary sources and that this book should not be mistaken for an authoritative scholarly monograph and should only be recommended to students with caution, given the number of mistakes and lack of scholarly apparatus . (There's some drama with these two: .)

A 2013 review of Hawley's and Swope's books titled "Works in English on the Imjin War and the Challenge of Research" by Nam-lin Hur , a history professor at the University of British Columbia, concludes with the following:

The two books authored by Hawley and Swope, respectively, contain countless factual errors, fictionalized accounts, and outright fabrications, all stemming from the quality of the sources upon which they relied. Almost every page of these two books contains some form of misinformation. The authors fail to rely upon firm empirical data on the Imjin War. Having failed in this most basic and fundamental task, their analyses could not help but be fatally flawed. It is as though they decided to critique Shakespeare’s Richard III (which is believed to have been written in 1592), without actually reading it, by choosing, instead, to rely on secondhand comments, anecdotes, and gossip, to which they cavalierly add their own guesswork.

That said, there are also more positive reviews of these books, and I'm well aware that no source is perfect. For instance, 이순신 평전 doesn't have regular inline citations (though there are plenty of photos of primary sources and some direct mentions of sources in the text). Malerisch (talk) 06:41, 7 December 2025 (UTC)

Thoughts on AI-enhanced images?

I photographed several items at a special exhibition on Yi Sun-sin at the National Museum of Korea but some of them contain glare due to the glass display. One scroll by Toyotomi Hideyoshi was too wide to capture in a single shot, so I photographed it in three sections. Before uploading to Wikipedia or Wikimedia Commons, is minimal AI-assisted editing—such as glare reduction and stitching the three images into a panorama—permissible if clearly disclosed? The photos are my own, so there are no copyright concerns. See an example below. @Grapesurgeon

Example Motjustescribe (talk) 14:50, 3 December 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for taking the photos. MOS:AIUPSCALE; imo enhanced images are lower priority in general, so if image not critical to include in article maybe less desirable to have AI image. Also is that scroll available online somewhere? It'd be PD either way grapesurgeon (talk) 15:09, 3 December 2025 (UTC)

The scroll belongs to Saga Prefectural Nagoya Castle Museum but was loaned to the National Museum of Korea for the exhibition. Saga Prefectural Nagoya Castle Museum's website doesn't host any images of its collections. The Jinju National Museum has a photo online, but none of the images show the "OPEN" public domain symbol (explained here), and I can't tell if they forgot or they're all copyrighted. Unfortunately, I'm not able to call and ask the museum because I'm back in the US. It would certainly be best if we could use the museum's image—it seems professionally photographed. The scroll itself doesn't fit this article but would be valuable for the Imjin War page. Motjustescribe (talk) 01:41, 5 December 2025 (UTC)

Faithful reproductions of copyright-free works are also copyright-free. Those images are suitable for use. grapesurgeon (talk) 02:51, 5 December 2025 (UTC)

See c:Template:PD-Art grapesurgeon (talk) 03:01, 5 December 2025 (UTC)

I'd strongly discourage using generative AI to stitch images together, as there is no guarantee that the resulting output faithfully reproduces the input, no matter what the AI tells you. For example, this scroll, which is written in ja:箇条書き format, has the kanji 一 at the top of several columns. The first original image of yours (the second image in the imgur link) has five 一 in a row at the top left. This does not appear anywhere in the stitched output image. Malerisch (talk) 22:49, 3 December 2025 (UTC)