Talk:Thomas Bouchier

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. Track your hook after promotion. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected, closed by Launchballer (talk) 16:20, 31 July 2026 (UTC)

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• ... that after 40 years as Regius Professor of Civil Law, Thomas Bouchier arranged for his son to succeed him?

• Source: "In 1712 Bouchier did the faculty of law serious harm by arranging for his son James (1683–1736), who was also a civil lawyer, to succeed him as regius professor..." from the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography.

• • Reviewed:
  • Comment:

Created by 1stViscountessNivlac (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Nivlac, 1st Viscountess Nivlac (talk) 19:03, 2 June 2026 (UTC).

• Hey @1stViscountessNivlac:, I love the article. It's new enough, it's long enough, it's interesting, cites back up what they say. No copyvio, neutrality is there, cited hook. However, two big things - 1) a few last-sentences-of-paragraphs have no citations ("When Sweit died in 1672, Bouchier became Regius Professor in his own right." and "The couple had three sons: James, Richard, and William.") and 2) the hook isn't necessarily that interesting to an outside observer. Would you be able to 1) propose an alternative hook and 2) cite those two clauses? Thanks! Jishara (talk) 03:03, 3 July 2026 (UTC)
  • Hello, @Jishara:! Thanks for the review. I've shifted the citations for the mentioned paragraphs to the end. I'll give an alternative hook a ponder - maybe something about the pack of villains imposing on the Queen (still about him arranging for his son to succeed him, but perhaps a bit punchier). Nivlac, 1st Viscountess Nivlac (talk) 01:09, 6 July 2026 (UTC)

... that Thomas Hearne called Thomas Bouchier a "vile, abominable Wretch" — who nonetheless had "good skill"? Bremps... 22:35, 5 July 2026 (UTC)

• • @1stViscountessNivlac: I like the pathway, but I'm not sure what Thomas Hearne called Bouchier is something that people would find notable unless they knew about Hearne - maybe something cutting out the name like ALT2: ...that even those who called 40-year Regius Professor of Civil Law Thomas Bouchier a "vile, abominable Wretch" acknowledged his "good skill"? Jishara (talk) 01:48, 6 July 2026 (UTC)

I don't mean to hostilely take over the review, but is information about him so hard to come by that half his page is about his familial relations instead of his own life? Bremps... 22:35, 5 July 2026 (UTC)

• Hi, @Bremps:! Thanks for the comment. He is a relatively obscure figure (though certainly notable as regius professor) and the details provided on his children are about as bare a biography as you could write (other than the details of James Bouchier's succession, which I think is easily just as much about the father as the son. Nivlac, 1st Viscountess Nivlac (talk) 01:09, 6 July 2026 (UTC)
  • @Bremps: Any reply to 1VN? @Jishara: any opinion on the subsequent issue raised? theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 11:46, 23 July 2026 (UTC)
    • @Nivlac, 1st Viscountess Nivlac: just want4ed to confirm re. hook? As for information on the family (specifically Richard and William) it could potentially be trimmed but I don't think this is bad enough to cause readability problems. Jishara (talk) 11:53, 23 July 2026 (UTC)
• An WP:INFOBOX would help the readability of this article, as well as some more/better sourcing. I don't find this hook particularly interesting, but can see that the article is not really deep enough to find much else. If you remove the content that should go in his family's article instead of his own, it may not be longer than the 1,500 character DYK minimum depending on what exactly you count. Edittttor (talk) 22:59, 27 July 2026 (UTC)
• Given that this times out in a few days and article issues have not been addressed, in addition to the lack of a new hook, this is now marked for closure. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:39, 31 July 2026 (UTC)

Article structure

@1stViscountessNivlac: I suggest turning the family section into prose, because otherwise the article is too short for DYK. Also can you access any of the sources in ODNB? Presumably he is notable as an Oxford professor with an article in ODNB, but two sources is not ideal, particularly as Alumni Oxonienses isn't in depth. You have left out some of the interesting bits from ODNB, presumably to avoid making a WP:close paraphrase of it. TSventon (talk) 23:30, 2 June 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply, @TSventon. The DYK definition of prose size says "That includes letters, numbers, punctuation, and spaces, but should exclude wikitext, templates, lists, tables, section headers, image captions, block quotes, the table of contents, and references". I wouldn't have guessed that bulleting a section of text renders it a list and not prose, but I've never done this before so if that is the case I can simply paragraph it.

I've been operating under the assumption that all regius professors are notable under WP:NACADEMIC criterion 5.

As for sources, I can't find the volumes of Thomas Hearne's Remarks online (only the one that is referenced on his son's page). I don't own a copy of Squibb's Doctors' Commons but I've read a library copy quite closely and doubt it will have anything deeper than dates.

I have left a few things out, partially for copyright reasons and partially out of indecision on how to handle them. The author's views on Bouchier's impact, I suppose, can be added to the article as a modern view. It's Bouchier's tenure as commissary of Canterbury that troubles me. I'm somewhat loath to mention it without knowing any actual details. I haven't found any so far, but it's basically impossible to Google due to there being an archbishop of Canterbury named Thomas Bourchier (the fact that Bourchier and Boucher are alternate spellings should probably also be mentioned, following my practice from Alexander Myln). Nivlac, 1st Viscountess Nivlac (talk) 08:58, 3 June 2026 (UTC)

@1stViscountessNivlac: I use WP:DYKCHECK to check prose size, the reviewer probably will too. It is a bit arbitrary, but it avoids arguments. As the link explains, the prose size gadget will usually give the same result.

I agree that you should respect the copyright of ODNB, but I think the result is a bit stub-like, and thus not an ideal fit for DYK. One of the reasons Wikipedia has WP:GNG is that it is easier to write a satisfactory article with three substantial sources than one. I agree with WP:NACADEMIC criterion 5, even thought ODNB seems to think he was rather undistinguished as a professor.

I have looked for further sources and haven't found much. You could note what the Court of Arches and Doctors' Commons were in the article as many readers won't have heard of them. TSventon (talk) 11:23, 3 June 2026 (UTC)

Volumes 8 and 10 of Thomas Hearne's Remarks are online and linked from de:Thomas Bouchier. TSventon (talk) 14:07, 3 June 2026 (UTC)

There is an interesting history of the Bouchier land holdings in 'Hanborough: Economic history', in A History of the County of Oxford: Volume 12, online at https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/oxon/vol12/pp166-172 . TSventon (talk) 17:46, 3 June 2026 (UTC)

Ooh, good find! I wanted to mention the inheritance of his father's estate in the article from the go but didn't think the ODNB fully supported it. Nivlac, 1st Viscountess Nivlac (talk) 18:28, 3 June 2026 (UTC)

Thomas also bought land in Kidlington, see 'Kidlington: Manors and other estates', in A History of the County of Oxford: Volume 12, online at https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/oxon/vol12/pp188-194#fnn16a . TSventon (talk) 19:12, 3 June 2026 (UTC)

There is information about the Bouchier house in Hanborough, rebuilt by Thomas and now known as the Manor House in 'Hanborough: Introduction', in A History of the County of Oxford: Volume 12, online at https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/oxon/vol12/pp158-164 . For completeness, per Google books, the pages which mention Thomas (died 1723) are 163, 169, 172, 176-7, 194. TSventon (talk) 20:20, 4 June 2026 (UTC)