Talk:Tengrism

Veracity of the Tengrism symbol shown on the page?

This symbol appears to come from a defunct Russian/Yakut-language website called Tengry.org. Looking at archives of the site, I cannot really find the image, but the site seems dedicated to shamanism and neo-paganism, and does things like make predictions about the future, talk about UFOs, hyperborea, etc.

The symbol itself appears to be something called a Shanyrak, Tunduk, Toono etc., which is something used in the construction of the yurt, at the top. The shanyrak as it's called in Russian, can be found on things like the flag of Kyrgyzstan or the Kazakh coat of arms, but seems to have no relation to Tengrism in particular. The inclusion of Old Turkic script seems most likely to be an addition from Tengry.org. The explanation of the symbol's meaning on the file on wikimedia as a shaman's drum or even the structure of the universe seems to have no evidence for it.

Given that there is no evidence for the origin of this symbol apart from a disreputable and now defunct page, that there is no evidence of its use historically nor by any major organized group today, and that the symbol's composition and relation to Tengrism is extremely questionable, I propose this symbol be removed. This symbol appears on the Tengrism portal across Wikipedia and even appears on google, with no evidence for it having anything to do with Tengrism. Flammabl3 (talk) 19:58, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

This website is reputable and isn't defunct. Different religions have different spiritual beliefs, and the additional source of information on the website doesn't make it questionable. ~2026-29043-54 (talk) 13:47, 14 May 2026 (UTC)

I agree with Flammabl3, the usage of the symbols presented (specially the "swastika") should either have additional sourcing or be removed. The current quoted source is not even available anymore. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ~2026-29734-50 (talk) 17:22, 18 May 2026 (UTC)

Tengri exceptionalism

I believe my edit from last year was reverted and my Talk page topic got deleted before it could attract a proper disussion. I will make the edit again, and provide a more detailed justification thereof. I therefore ask my fellow Wikipedia editors not to revert the edit or delete this topic before it can attract a proper discussion (Or, at least, put an "undue weight" tag at the beginning of the article).

As it stands now, the introduction paragraph states "[Tengri] is not considered a deity in the usual sense but a personification of the universe.". This sentence attempts to describe a core belief/dogma/paradigm of this religion. This statement is also given additional gravity by having been included in the introduction paragraph. Therefore, lying in the heart of the article, it is very important that this claim is backed up by proper sources, see WP:UNDUE

The reference provided ("Archetypes of Kazakh and Japanese cultures.") is not an academic source attempting to describe the core aspects of this religion but it is simply one comparing Tengrism to Japanese archetypes. The author makes this claim in a side remark (I can't stress this enough!). There is just one source listed for this claim, and my brief search online failed to provide any other proper sources backing this claim up. This is a clear indication that the Undue Weight principle of NPOV is broken. Again, see WP:UNDUE

Finally, such statements of "Tengri exceptionalism" have very specific political implications in Turkey, therefore I find it very difficult to believe that this sentence was added in good faith. Boundary.operator (talk) 21:34, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

Tengrism is not a religion and has no dogma. It is a term to summarize all sorts of beliefs revolving around Tengri and are not classified by any other religion such as Islam or Buddhism. VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 16:01, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

The article quite literally opens with

"Tengrism (also known as Tengriism, Tengerism, or Tengrianism) is a religion [...]"

If you have any problem with the classification of Tengrism as a religion, you're free to make the necessary edits after providing sufficient evidence that most scholars of Tengri do not classify it as such. I think that is not the case (that is, most scholars DO actually view it as a religion) but either way, it's irrelevant to the point I was making. Boundary.operator (talk) 17:18, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

You're wrong. Tengriism is a Mongolic-Türkic religion that believes in worship of the Deity of 'Tengri' who is the God of the sky. You can educate yourself and research the religion. Don't post anything here on your opinions on religion anymore. You're uneducated and misinformed about it. ~2026-29043-54 (talk) 13:44, 14 May 2026 (UTC)

Your understanding of religion is coming from a Eurocentrism analysis and not (a) Türkic source(s) therefore it's wrong and your edits are bad information. Tengriism is an ethno-religion. Türkic exceptionalism refers to the ruling class of Türkic people involved in mandating cultural and spiritual practices and beliefs over their religion and how it is implemented. And you've got no source of your claims because 1) They don't exist and you've made up your own false theory on a foreign religion which you don't follow or understand 2) Your edits seem to be made from your own bad faith beliefs or research, rather than proper understanding or communication from a reliable Asian source. There's a clear complexion of religious and cultural norms that you don't understand or connect into or consider in your post. ~2026-29043-54 (talk) 14:05, 14 May 2026 (UTC)

Citation needed

"Tengriism was the prevailing religion of the [...] Xiongnu". Citation needed. Tekin, Talât (1993) has 0 iterations of the string "Xiongnu". The source given for the "Religions" data block in Xiongnu's page is not supportive of that. And Yeniseians are shamanists. What is the evidence that they were Tengriists at any point? No, the word 'tengri' possibly coming from Proto-Yeniseian is not evidence. 2A02:1811:C0D:6F00:65A2:8865:E250:2FB1 (talk) 11:20, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

That is actually strong evidence that requires further research. Tengriism and Shamans/Shamanism are interconnected therefore it's the only possible consideration based on all historical and religious evidence. ~2026-29043-54 (talk) 14:10, 14 May 2026 (UTC)

1 million Kazakh tengriists is unsubstantiated

Citation 136 provides no evidence for 1 million Kazakh tengriists, and that figure is probably false. The entire paragraph should be removed, arguably the entire Demographics section as there's very little left afterwards. 217.155.101.147 (talk) 20:11, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

This whole article is garbage. 2A02:1811:C0D:6F00:996F:E714:E3EC:D0BE (talk) 10:47, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

The cited news article literally says There are now more than a million citizens of the country who recognise themselves in this shamanic confession of Turkish-Mongolian origin... and They now number over a million people, so much so that its followers have opened a petition on the epetition.kz website requesting legal recognition of their cult as one of the country's official religions. Liu1126 (talk) 22:29, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

It absolutely does - and it provides no source for it. A random claim is not substantiated simply because it appears on a random website. OperationalRisk (talk) 11:45, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

AsiaNews is a news agency managed by the Pontifical Institute for Foreign Missions supported by the Catholic Church and is widely cited on Wikipedia. There hasn't been any significant discussion regarding it at WP:RSP. Do you have evidence that it is an unreliable source? Liu1126 (talk) 12:07, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: There is ongoing discussion regarding this request. As edit requests are for immediately actionable and uncontroversial edits I am closing out the template to remove it from the queue. This is a procedural action, is not a "rejection" of any kind, and it does not impact further discussion. —Sirdog (talk) 00:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

The state religion of Khazaria was Judaism

Although probably the commoner Turkic populace of Khazaria remained traditional tengriists, the state religion (religion of the elite) was Judaism. 2A02:A460:BD7:1:2957:E512:1C0A:745E (talk) 07:03, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

Firstly, I don't see that the two references in this article to Tengrism in Khazaria contradict that. I don't think there is a serious challenge to the proposition that the population as a whole likely remained Tengrist. Secondly, "state religion" is an anachronism. At most it might be the case that the "elite" converted to Judaism. Thirdly, even that is not universally accepted by the sources. DeCausa (talk) 17:14, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

Proof? VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 23:48, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

No it wasn't. Türkic states only had and have one religion. Tegriism was and is that religion. Don't make false claims. The State religion is Tegriism. Even in non-Türkic States all of the Türkic people continued to follow Tengriism as their religion. They followed, and still follow this as their original religion in Türkic states, and other Türkic regions still in the modern-day. ~2026-29043-54 (talk) 13:28, 14 May 2026 (UTC)

In the Khazarian, Selçuk and Ottoman Empires, the State religion of the ruling class of Türks was Tengriism. The common religion of the people was secularism (mainly Islam, but also Christianity, and Judaism). This is because the Türkic people allowed the subjects to continue to keep worshipping their own religions, and Abrahamic religion was the norm at the time, with Islam having the major stronghold and influence over the entire region of Anatolia, Mediterrania, and

Eurasia. This is/was even the case with religious warfare against other religions that occured. The region was multi-cultural and ruled by a small ruling class of Türks. ~2026-29043-54 (talk) 13:35, 14 May 2026 (UTC)