Talk:September 11 attacks/Archive 65

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Archive 65

Follow-up RfC: Infobox collage

Which collage should be used in the infobox for this article? Sdkb ^talk 19:41, 8 March 2026 (UTC)

Option 1

• From top, left to right: The Twin Towers burning
• A rescue worker at Ground Zero
• Collapsed section of the Pentagon
• Fragment of the Flight 93 fuselage
• 9/11 Memorial reflecting pool and One World Trade Center

Option 2

• From top, left to right: The Twin Towers burning
• Rescue workers at Ground Zero
• Collapsed section of the Pentagon
• Fragment of the Flight 93 fuselage
• A fireman at Ground Zero

Sdkb ^talk 19:41, 8 March 2026 (UTC)

Background

The collage used in this article's infobox has been in flux in recent years (see above for further background). A recent RfC found clear consensus (10 !votes to 5) that a variant of the version used from 2021-2024 ("Option B") should be used, but that File:WTC-Fireman requests 10 more colleagues.jpg (the "fireman photo") from the status quo version should be retained. However, an attempted implementation of the result was reverted due to disagreement on which image should be swapped out for it. This RfC compares the two options for a swap that received support in the prior RfC, providing a dedicated space to establish clarity on which is preferred. Sdkb ^talk 19:41, 8 March 2026 (UTC)

Survey (collage follow-up)

• Option 1: In short, this replaces one image of Ground Zero with another, so that we don't have multiple. Some more detailed rationale:
  As I wrote in the Wikipedia:Collage tips essay, Collages should ideally represent the full diversity of the subject. Option 1 is carefully balanced between the many facets of the attacks: The top image represents the attack on the Twin Towers, the middle left image represents the rescue efforts and first responders, the middle right image represents the Pentagon attack, the bottom left image represents Flight 93 and the aviation aspect of the attacks, and the bottom right image represents the memorialization efforts in the aftermath of the attack. Option 2 has two Ground Zero photos, and while they're both visually compelling, that's more than we need (this shows up in the caption, where there's nothing left to link for the second image without violating WP:DUPLINK). It also lacks representation of the memorialization efforts. Additionally, by replacing a square photo with a landscape photo, it makes them both smaller and eliminates the visual balance with the second row.
  Some editors argued in the last RfC that including representation of the memorial aspects is inappropritate. I strongly disagree. The article is supposed to cover the attacks in the broadest way, which includes their impact/legacy. 9/11 had a sizemic impact on American culture, so this element is crucial. That's why we cover memorials in the article, and also mention them in the lead. Per MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE, The purpose of an infobox is to summarize, but not supplant, the key facts that appear in an article, so imagery of a 9/11 memorial is also fully appropriate there. In addition, the memorials are visually compelling (memorials are designed to look beautiful) and they add some variety to the infobox so that it's not 100% photos of destruction. I'm open to alternative images of memorialization if editors have a particular problem with this one (perhaps another photo showing the memorial pools or one of Tribute in Light), but we ought to have something. Sdkb ^talk 19:41, 8 March 2026 (UTC)
• Option 2 - I prefer the inclusion of the "Rescue workers at Ground Zero" image over the "9/11 Memorial reflecting pool and One World Trade Center" one just based on personal preference. It's a beautiful & high quality image, and showing the rescue teams "climb over and dig through piles of rubble from the destroyed World Trade Center as the American flag billows over the debris" adds a nice human (and dare I say it, patriotic) touch to the collage. As for the pool/trade center photo, there's already some at September 11 attacks#Memorials, so I don't think we need another one in the collage. Some1 (talk) 22:45, 8 March 2026 (UTC)

  The "we already depict this in the body" argument doesn't make much sense to me. We depict basically everything in the collage somewhere in the body as well, often just from a different perspective (the Ground Zero Rescue Workers photo would fit right in in the rescue section of the body). The Ground Zero Memorial photo in the body is an aerial shot, which is quite different from the ground-level one in Option 1. Sdkb ^talk 01:15, 9 March 2026 (UTC)

• Option 2 It seems strange to include an image of the memorial/current WTC 1 within the lead collage. ~ HAL333 14:51, 9 March 2026 (UTC)

  Option 2 – I agree with Hal 333 that having the memorial in the lead collage doesn't seem like the better choice. While I understand the argument that the photo represents content from the body, I believe the photos representing the September 11 attacks should be photos of the attacks and their aftermath. Our efforts to memorialize the event and the lives lost are important, but distract from the gravity of the real images otherwise represented.

  I disagree with other comments that option two is somehow less diverse. It captures the same diversity of the attacks. While Ground Zero is depicted twice, the NYC attacks loom larger in both casualty count and the public perception/memory of the event. Option two still provides images from the various attacks, and includes visually striking photos. Bravelake (talk) 03:32, 11 March 2026 (UTC)

• Option 2 – I vote for this collage and will repeat it's uncommon to encounter a memorial photo within a infobox, with actual events being the usual content instead. The purpose of a Wikipedia article isn't closure, but to create a comprehensive, neutrally-written encyclopedia of knowledge. Cena332 (talk) 14:17, 11 March 2026 (UTC)

•Option 2 For this very reason: Collages should ideally represent the full diversity of the subject. I know that Wikipedia is supposed to be based on sources and not our personal experiences, but having lived in NYC on September 11, I can tell you that in my own experience, it seemed like American flags instantaneously seemed to pop up everywhere. I had never really noticed flags anywhere before that and always thought of New York as being non-patriotic, so it felt like a huge change to suddenly see flags all over the place. Slava570 (talk) 22:02, 22 March 2026 (UTC)

• Option 2 seems to best represent the topic, and yes, something about Flight 93 definitely needs to be added. Skyshiftertalk 16:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC)

I believe we should implement Option 2 as a month has gone by. --Cena332 (talk) 21:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC)

 Done. Sdkb ^talk 03:50, 21 April 2026 (UTC)

Discussion (collage follow-up)

Pinging editors who participated in prior RfC: Lukewarmbeer, TurboSuperA+, Slatersteven, BretHarteChitown, Cena332, Some1, Thesavagenorwegian, Corriebertus, Guacpocalypse, GhostOfDanGurney, Uhoj, Ismeiri, Kowal2701, Babysharkboss2, and Mhazandaren. Sdkb ^talk 19:52, 8 March 2026 (UTC)

Has the other RFC been closed with a conclusion? Slatersteven (talk) 14:58, 9 March 2026 (UTC)

Minor Edits

Because this article is locked for editing, I cannot perform one of my editorial habits, which is to increase the readability and clarity of Wikipedia articles, when I come across ambiguities and grammatical difficulties. I therefore propose that this space be used for such suggestions, by anyone who has improvements to offer. ↵ 2027-04-20 I noticed a clumsy sentence in the lead paragraph. It reads, “In response to the attacks, the United States launched the global war on terror, seeking to eliminate hostile groups deemed terrorist organizations, and the governments purported to support them over two decades.” I propose to add some commas. I suggest “In response to the attacks, the United States launched the global war on terror, seeking to eliminate hostile groups deemed terrorist organizations, and the governments purported to support them. This foreign policy agenda was conducted over the next two decades.” Editors, please adjust as is fitting. Thank you. Janice Vian, Ph.D. (talk) 23:40, 20 April 2026 (UTC) Janice Vian, Ph.D. (talk) 23:33, 20 April 2026 (UTC)

 Done Thanks for your suggestion! ⚠︎ ArkadenBoden ⚠︎ (talk) 17:29, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

Old image preview/gallery of Template:Infobox civilian attack

 If any editor here on Wikipedia included, the damaged side-view of the Pentagon, a firefighter at the World Trade Center site, and three freezeframes of the Pentagon being attacked by the American Airlines Flight 77, then it may or may not happen. UltraAtom (talk) 23:51, 24 April 2026 (UTC)