Talk:Pashtunwali

Untitled

Melmestia is regardless of religion or race. Google Marcus Lutrell or read Lone Survivor. In it Marcus Lutrell, the White Southern, Christian, lone survivor of a Navy SEAL team, is sheltered by a Pashtun tribe under melmestia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.43.119.125 (talk) 12:59, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

why was the criticism section deleted?

Kabuldoorast(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Kabuldoorast&action=view) , what was wrong with it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C5:4A8C:E300:5CBC:50C2:76E8:A75F (talk) 12:00, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Kabuldoorast is a sockpuppet who has been banned. The deleted section is <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pashtunwali&direction=prev&oldid=909921125#Criticism>. The deleted section seems too weakly written to be worth restoring, but yes, a judiciously worded criticism section is desirable. Vagabond nanoda (talk) 19:16, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

criticism section

I think we should add a section “criticism of Pashtunwali”, including the criticisms of Churchill and modern radical feminists

Added criticisms

Untitled

This goes to all the misunderstandings below. If you are not Pashtun, then you will not understand Pastunwali no matter how hard you try, Pashtunwali is genetic, its in our Pashtun blood, we can be hospitable to our enemies and strangers but please do not disect it as if you can proove something, cause in the end we are Pashtuns and we stick together no matter how hard you try to segregate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.245.13.143 (talk) 15:05, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Yours point being, my Pashtun brother?

What is this?

Trust in Y_W_H/G_D/_LL_H/the ONE/the CREATOR/the ARCHITECT of the Universe - what is this? RickK | Talk 04:08, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

It seems to be similar to the requirement for belief and faith in God that other religions such as Christianity state. Perhaps it can go without being said, but it is a major tenet, and I notice that several different religions have their name for Diety included, so this may be a way if indicating that Pashtunwali is a cultural ideology rather than a strictly religious institution. I have some background in comparative religious studies, but no familiarity with Pashtun culture so this is only a guess. nameless

Somebody needs to decide which is the proper word to use for God. I've changed all occurrences to Allah, as that is listed first, but I have no idea which is most correct. --Eequor 21:03, 21 May 2004 (UTC)

Pashtunwali & Islam

As non-Muslim (Christian) Pathan descendant, can we claim to be Pathans if we have lived the code even as we have forgotten who we are? I am the son of the son of the son of a Pathan; I immediately recognize the spirit of Pashtunwali if not the name. Am I am Pathan or 'of Pathan descent'?

dear members of Wikipedia ! I as a viewer of your webpage and originally pashtun from afghanistan as I have better information about our culture traditions and know it better so have to admitt that you have mentioned Pashtunwali as a religion , why? its not a religion perhaps traditional laws which are written by elders like Wazir Muhammad Gul Khan Mohmand. its highly respected by the international courts in geneva and they have adopted some human rights laws from it. It is mostly similar under the laws of islam and pashtun people are obeying just one god (Allah) and islam is the only religion in this nation. hope you correct the sentences wrote about pashtunwali. thanks

---

This article doesn't make any sense. Whoever wrote this was certainly not a Pukhtun. I am a Pukhtun and I can assure you that pukhtunwali has nothing to with God and other religious/philosophical concepts. Pukhtunwali is primarily an honor code and a code of conduct, which is followed by Pukhtuns. It has to do with hospitality, revenge, bravery, pride and the protection of women, property and freedom. I don't have the time to edit this page but someone with a bit of knowledge about Pukhtunwali really needs to redo this page as it is giving a lot of erroneous information.

---

As Pashtuns we don't recognize the term Pathan as ours. Not all Pathans are Pashtun. Pathans can be anyone from the surrounding areas of what is known as "greater Afghanistan". Tajiks, Turkmen, Arabs, Uzbeks, Hazaras, Baloch who settled in these areas are also known as Pathans. Rajputs are also known as Rajput Pathans or Rajput Khans. Basically the modern elite of the Pashtun bulk don't care who calls themselves a Pathan or Khan for that matter. But to be a Pashtun certain things are required by them, you must have lived amongst the Pashtuns, know how to speak the language (Pashto), and live your life by (Pashtunwali). The older scholarly elite will out rightly denounce you as a Pashtun if you are a non-Muslim. To them it wouldn’t matter if you even wrote a 1000 page book in Pashto. There are groups of Sikhs, Hindus and Christian in the Sharhad area of Pakistan who speak the language, and are recognized as "Pathans" by locals but amongst the Pashtun they are never considered as equals.

---

I don't think any Christian worth his salt could "practise" this code; recognise it yes, but its practise is contrary to Christian principles. Does Christianity sanction revenge ("Badal")? Or feuding? Yes, the old Christian rulers of Europe regularly feuded, but that isn't what appeals to the mind of a modern educated man, influenced by modern European culture. This "code" is actually a state of mind, but where it usually succeeds in leading one can be seen from the general state of Pashtun and Afghan society nowadays (and it has always been like that - except that developments there since 1979 brought it into the international limelight). As to the usage of the word "Pathan", it is an Indian term for Pashtun/Pakhtun. The person above is incorrect when he says "not all Pathans are Pashtun". That is nonsensical. This name does not apply to Tajiks, Uzbeks, Turkmen and other Central Asian non-Afghan minorities living within the modern Afghan state. They are known loosely as "Afghans", but never as "Pashtuns" , which implies Pashto-speaker; in fact the term "Afghan" also originally referred only to the Pashtun ethnicity - but came to be used for other ethnicities resident in the state which Afghans (Pashtuns) established - Afghanistan. Similarly here on the Pakistani side, the name does not apply to Indian ethnicities like the Punjabis, Seraikis and Hindko speakers, but many of these try to claim some kind of "Pathan descent", because these Indians/Punjabis have a historical awe of Pashtuns, and have a massive inferiority complex regarding themselves. He is right when he says that only Pashto speakers can be called Pashtun - even though there are many racially non-Pashtuns living among Pashtuns, but who are considered to be "Pashtuns" because they speak only Pashto: like the ethnic Arab or Turkic Syeds, Pirs and Qureshis, etc. Like most ethnicities, but more so in this case, being a Pashtun isn't dependent on one's genes or "caste" as it is the ability to speak Pashto. Thus a number of Pashtuns who emigrated to Hindustan now speak only Urdu/Hindi - having totally forgotten Pashto, and when they refer to themselves as Pashtuns, their brothers in Pakhtunkhwa (the actual land of the Pashtuns) look down upon them with the utmost contempt. Then again, Islam is a separate theme from the basic Pashtun cultural rootstock, but has become so intertwined in the extremist Pashtun conciousness over the past 800 years, that as my "brother" says above, there are no other Pashtuns than Muslim; certainly no "Christian Pashtuns". At least not officially so. The Islamic doctrine certainly meshes well with Pashtunwali and all it implies.

But this man (which I presume is what he is) is right when he says that the Punjabi/Indian Rajputs caste are Khans; for they are descended from the same White Huns who produced the Khan feudal aristocracy among Pashtuns. But not every Pashtun tribe has Khans; and Khans are not original Pashtuns as they so forcefully proclaim, but Turkic "outsiders" who hijacked Pashtun overlordship and the claim to be Pashtun "blue bloods" in a most forceful manner. It goes without saying that a large number of the precepts of the barbaric "Pashtunwali" owe their origins to the Huns, who are reviled the world over for attacking civilisation - and not to the original Indo-Iranian Pashtun society belonging to Gandhara and Sattagydia which the Huns overran and destroyed. Hence the Rajputs display the same marital "chivalry" and indeed also the racial features that their Hun (or "Khan") brothers in the Charsadda and Mardan districts of the Pakhtunkhwa area exhibit. In fact, "Khan" is a Persianised corruption of the word "Hun" - but as it spread for centuries throughout Central and North Asia due to the spread of extensive Hunnish incursions and influences, even the Mongol Genghis Khan had it as his name - although he was not a Pashtun as we all know. Lastly, the writer above says that most of the the modern Pashtun elite doesn't give a damn about whether or not they are regarded as "Pashtun". He is right. Pesonally I am a "Pashtun" Syed from the north Charsadda region, and I don't give a f*** about being called "Pashtun" or not. My cousins are crazy to identify themselves as such, but that is because they are primitive upstarts, and need their heads examining. For me, being a Pashtun implies backwardness, boorishness, uncouthness, violence, thuggery - things opposed to modernity and civilisation - a lot of bad, nasty things I would do without. And if you are a Christian my dear, then you are lucky - and I advise you to remain being one; "Pashtunwali" is the path to, and of, the Devil himself.

---

You are right not to give a f*** about being called "Pashtun". Being a Syed you can earn respect of Pashtuns but still not eligible to be a Pashtun by merely speaking their language. In the south Pakhtunkhwa, particularly in Kurram and Orakzai areas,there is very clear distinction between a "Pashtun" and "Sayyeds". Sayyeds are usually not expected to follow Pashtunwali. They are respected for their claim to be descendants of Prophet.Why are your cousins crazy to be identified as Pashtuns?? They must be properly briefed about their roots. There are quite a few other dimensions regarding Pashtun and Pashtunwali.For example it can be classified on 1)geographical,racial,linguistic and ethnic grounds as a group and 2)Social, moral,ethical and cultural grounds as a following.As a set of code of conduct and honour, it is basically a yardstick to measure the confidence, courage,guts,self belief and respect for the time tested traditions. At times one has not only to put at stakes his life but face harsh fueds for generations to uphold Pashtunwali. It is somewhat a test that every self reliant Pashtun is expected to pass through in testing times to earn respect of the community,group or tribe. Calling "Pashtunwali" barbaric would be a bit too harsh. As one of it's traits, to keep your word even at the cost of your life,though a bit rigid but has the universal appeal. And the good news for my christian friend is that if you have the blood of a Pashtun and recognise the spirit of Pashtunwali as you said then you are definitely a Pashtun. At many instances one finds Pashtuns appreciating some individual from other ethnic groups like a Punjabi or englishman by saying"...a very good Pakhtun(Pashtun)man". It's very obvious that such a statement comes only after they observe or consider that that person's behaviour or action was according to spirit of Pashtunwali.So it's free of one religious beliefs.116.71.222.70 (talk) 21:04, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Pashtunwali supports all monothiest faiths, not only Islam. For example, Christianity and Judaism are Allah's religions same as Islam is Allah's reigion. Only difference is that people changed Christianity and Judaism but Islam is unchanged. Christ Jesus practiced Pashtunwali and that is well documented.--PosePetal (talk) 13:09, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Well Pashtunwali is on the whole compatible with Islam and Judaism(though I am not sure if tureh goes well with ‘turn the other cheek’ in Christianity). I doubt Jesus(Peace Be upon him) followed Pashtunwali as such as he was not a Pashtun but of the Hebrew/Ancient Jewish people(Children Of Israel).

Pahshtunwali as a cultural institution

There is no doubt as to the distinction between Islamic law and Pashtunwali. While there is little reliable information the origins of Pashtunwali, it is a cultural tradition that almost certainly predates Islam. It is in reflection of Pashtun tribal society as well as a guide to conduct and conflict resolution so there is a definite religious influence in it. In Afghanistan and the tribal areas of Pakistan the degree to which Pashtunwali or Islamic law holds sway varies. The soviet invasion and subsequent 25 years of war contributed to a considerable dissolution of traditional tribal custom to the point were Islamic law, that is not necessarily grounded in tribal and family tradition, has taken hold and now plays a larger role in the society. In Pakistan, the central governments attempt to bring the tribal areas under it's control has had a similar effect. In many areas an Islamic Ulema rather than the Jirga is the institution called upon to decide matters in the community. However, the Pashtunwali is still not likely to entirely replaced. It is still common for a person with a dispute or accused of a crime to be asked whether he wants to be judged under Islamic law or the Pashtunwali.

===============================True although Islam is part of modern and medieval Pashtun(as opposed to the ancient Pakhta/Pactyn) culture to the point where some people would say there is no such thing as a non-Muslim Pashtun. Also sometimes people ask for Islamic scholars to be put on traditional Pashtun jirgas.

The neutrality and factual accuracy of this article are disputed?

The article bears a tag that puts "The neutrality and factual accuracy of this article are disputed." It directs one to the talk page to discuss the neutrality and accusracy.

But I went through the history of the talk page and I am mystified what issues prompted the tag. It if it can not be explained it should be removed. -- Geo Swan 13:14, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

This article is not neutral. Like all cultures and religions, Pashtunwali probably has disadvantages and dark sides that should be explained, particularly when the people that allegedly practice this wonderful culture are are oppressive and oppressed (not to mention the treatment of minorities and women). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.249.53.214 (talk) 15:33, August 30, 2007 (UTC)

About that, it does mention things many people would view negatively E.G. badal. As for treatment of women namus(treating women with respect and protecting them) is a well documented Pashtun culture trait, every source on Pashtun culture I have googled and every book that touches in the subject (even ones that paradoxically blame it for ‘honour’ killings, marriage of young girls etc.)

What treatment of women do you refer to? 

Well, as a non-Pathan I must say that the article is pretty blatantly one in praise of Pashtunwali, with little or nothing about: its critics; possible weaknesses; the extent to which non-Pashtuns see it as conforming with Islam or other ethical/religious traditions; or the role of Pashtunwali in dealing with non-Pathans or in multi-cultural societies in general. I also don't see much, if anything, about the role of women in Pashtunwali. --Orange Mike 16:06, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

This is probably one of the least neutral articles I've ever seen on wikipedia. It is completely riddled with platitudes that it is rendered useless. The very tennets that claim to be a part of Pashtunwali are completely at odds with the realities in Afghanistan, especially with regards to the treatment of women and minorities. This is bordering on sophistry. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.191.249.6 (talk) 15:40, 28 March 2007 (UTC).

It documents real world examples E.G. melmestia benefiting both a US soldier on the run from the taliban and a madrasa student accused of murder, Namus is reflected in some laws such as the death penalty for rape(also judicial badal), oh and remember to assume good faith son. What treatment of women do you refer to?

The following statement "Contemporaries may say that all ethnic Afghans are Pashtuns, more orthodox people will disagree. For those who disagree, the deciding factor is dependent on how one lives one's life. " is outrageous. What about the other ethnic groups of Afganistans (Tajiks for example)? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.193.38.39 (talk) 16:51, 28 March 2007 (UTC).

In my opinion, I don't think there is such a thing as an "ethnic Afghan". Afghan is a nationality and Pashtun and Tajik are ethnicities. Therefore it is not possible to have an "ethnic Afghan". There are ethnic Pashtuns of Afghan nationality as well as ethnic Tajiks of Afghan nationality. There are also ethnic Pashtuns of Pakistani nationality. Alexkreuz 23:04, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Unless I'm wrong, the conflict here is from different uses of the word Afghan, ie. "Citizen of the state of Afghanistan" vs. "ethnic Afghan where Afghan is a traditional synonym for Pushtu". The above statement is just plain confusing and seems like it should be deleted. I'm not familiar with wikipedia's policy on the matter, but I'd think that the term "Pashtuns" denotes a certain ethnic group, while "Afghans" is a bit more ambiguous and shouldn't be used except to refer to "citizens of Afghanistan"--68.76.233.134 01:11, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

***Pashtunwali a religion***

Please remove the bit about Pashtunwali being a religion. There is no historical fact, verbal fact, or written fact of any sort amongst us Pashtuns to say that Pashtunwali (the way of the Pashtun) is any form or sort a religion. The way of the Sumuria warrior, Bushido, is a set of rules and guides which are also thousands of years old, but it is clearly not a religion. Pashtunwali, is just known to all Pashtuns as the way of the Pashtuns, as how they should behave, react, treat, and live. It has no religious merits, nor does it speak of gods, prophets, heaven or hell, how we are born, why we are here, what is our purpose like all religions explains and elaborates. Pashtunwali is more like a law then a religion. It is the law of the tribal and warrior people of Pakhtunkhwa (Pakhtun domain), it sets rules and guides. It doesn't explain to us why we are born, why we exist, what is our purpose. It only shows us the best way to live our lives by ways that have been acquired by years of experiance and how to deal with so and such issues.

So I request remove Pashtunwali as "religion" from the article, unless you can provide me solid evidence that makes it a religion, please don't add some individuals personal wet dreams to the list as research.

Pathan VS Pashtun

After reading this discussion i can make out one think, people dont have their facts straight for sure. Let me make it really really simple for eveyone by giving facts which most people, even Pathans ignorant of their roots dont know. I, being a Pathan (Niazi Tribe) myself would like to assure of the following information being as close to fact as possible.

Pathan VS Pashtun 101:

---

Since pre-Islamic times, the Bani-Israel/Banni-Afghana, tribe had settled in around Mecca as well as at Ghor, what is now Afghanistan. Khalid Bin Walid (One of the Prophet's (PBUH) companion & the first great Islamic conqurer; and belonging to the Bani-Israel/Afghana Tribe settled around Mecca) after accepting Islam he either proceeded in person or sent a letter to his kinsmen of the Bani Israel/Afghana, settled in Ghor, to bring them tiding of the new faith Islam and and invitation to join.

As a result a deputation of the Afghans of Ghor led by Qais (Later Adbur Rashid, after accepting Islam) met the Prophet at Medina and accepted the new faith. Qais later retured to Ghor to propogate the new faith. He died leaving three sons, Sarbanr, Bitan & Ghurghusht.

From the above mentioned three sons aswell as Karlanr (Being a foundling) we get all the Pathan tribes we know today. Below are some of the famous tribes under each of the three sons aswell as Karlanr:

Sarbanr:

---

1. Tarin

  - Abdali
  - Tor

1. Sherani
2. Urmar
3. Yusufzai

Bitan:

---

1. Niazi
2. Suri
3. Lodis
4. Dotan
5. Ghilji

Ghurghusht:

---

1. Kakars
2. Mando
3. Gaduns
4. Safis

Karlanri:

---

1. Wazir
2. Kakay

So as you can see by the details above. The Pathans are a people descending from the above mestioned brothers. What ever language they speak, where ever they live, they are Pathans.

On the other hand a Pashtun is a person who speaks the Pashtu language (Sister language of Farsi/Persian, itis a local language of what is now know Afghanistan. He may be a Pathan, he may be not. A person from any religion, sect, race can be Pashtun if he can speak the language. Any individual living in Afghanistan today, speaking the language Pashtu will be a Pashtun, but he will only be a Pathan if he is from the above mentioned lineage.

I hope this clearifies a lot. Thankyou.

By: ---

         Asim Khan Niazi
         niazi.asim@gmail.com

Information taken from credible sources including "The Pathan" by OLAF CAROE.

Wow please tell me you are joking, did you just make a horrible disticntion between Pathan and Pashtun? Your a lose nut, both terms are interchanebale with eachother. Pathan is just the indian term for Pashtuns while Pashtun is the correct form. The Purest Pashtuns come from Afghanistan, NOT Pakistan, anybody who's tribe is Pashtun and descends from those fictonal brothers you mentioned are pashtuns, while Pathan is an offensive word for Pashtuns. Clearly your Pakistani as your moronic comment indicates while you should know your people are not even real pashtuns but rather former hindus and dardic people who adopted Pashto.Akmal94 (talk) 10:13, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Cleanup

This article is written in a very informal, conversational style. See WP:Style for help in writing an encyclopedic article. --Jpbrenna 06:02, 20 September 2006 (UTC) (forgot to sign previously)

Correct transliteration of پختونوالی

The conventional transliteration of this Perso-Arabic spelling would be Pakhtunwali or Pakhtoonwali both of which are used several times in the article; however, the conventional term in English is Pashtunwali. I do not know whether this reflects the historical changing of an aspirated voiceless velar plosive (k^h) to a sibilant or a difference of pronunciation in modern dialects of Pashto; whatever the case, it should be noted in the introduction, and the spelling Pashtunwali used thereafter. --Jpbrenna 06:20, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

The transliteration problem lies with the spelling of the word in the article. The Pashto letter ښ should be used instead, like so: پښتونوالی. Since the letter can be pronounced as either an 'sh' or a 'kh,' depending on the speaker's dialect, that accounts for the confusion. I imagine whoever wrote the article only had access to a Farsi keyboard. Perhaps someone could change the article? Hope that helps. --70.167.226.171 (talk) 17:44, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Economist article

An interesting, if controversial, article on Pushtuns was published in the Dec 23rd 2006 issue of the Economist magazine (vo 381; 8509) under the title "Honour among them". It may prove useful in referencing points. Andeggs 20:45, 22 December 2006 (UTC) Yeah have read it and will again

Gandhi??

I can't believe that Gandhi is quoted as admiring the Pashtunwali philosophy. I'm sure there are many admirable things about both his own philosophy and about Pashtunwali, but to suppose that Pashtunwali is a philosophy of non-violence is completely misleading and almost funny. Jackmitchell 19:22, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

NPOV tag

Came across the article from The Beast (1988 film) and fixed some NPOV stuff in the linked-to section, then started reading the rest of the article and saw stuff like What follows below is a typically pigheaded "Afghan nationalist's" confused elaboration in which he proudly tries to embellish this crude and medieval practise and justify it by trying to show gullible Western readers that it is at par with the norms of modern civilisation. Looks like it needs a lot more work than I can do right now, so I'm leaving it with an NPOV tag.

 — J’raxis  ✆✍ 01:59, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

That sounds biased itself, removed the point of view tag for reasons I have given under the section here about neutrality and factual accuracy.

Pathanwali

Does this term have any merit for being included? I had never heard of the term before coming to this page. On Google it only received 556 hits, most of them being for a town in Pakistan by the same name. Also i highly doubt the "pathans" of India practice "pathanwali". The only two terms that should be included are Pashtunwali, and Pakhtunwali. IP198 18:53, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Hello! Looking over the talk page, I just now saw that you left this comment. The term is used by the Pathans in India. Please see references such as The Dawn (Pakistan) and Khyber (Afghanistan), for example. I hope this helps answer your inquiry. With regards, Anupam^Talk 04:43, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

mosaic law

Is this sentence sourced:"Many of Pashtunwali's most basic precepts are rooted in Mosaic Law."
I don't think dropping a sentence like this by itself without explanation is a good idea. If it is implied that the two share common roots expand it alot. If it is meant to state they share a common focus/vision/purpose/nature, the sentence should read something like "Pashtunwali's most basic precepts are similar in purpose and authority to Mosaic Law amoung the Pashtun people."
I will change it unless someone has a good reason to keep it the same. --Wilson 15:37, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I think that entire section needs a little bit of work. I don't think comparing it to mosaic law and then linking to the article of mosaic law is constructive. I would much rather see a more coherent summary to what aspects of mosaic law pashtunwali is similar, and have them explained without reference to mosaic law. Comparison to mosaic law would suggest that the user has a general knowledge of what mosaic law is, which I doubt the majority do. Alexkreuz 22:50, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Teachings

   * Faith

I thought that Sikhism was a monotheistic religion?

Sikhism?

Nice and well written article but more authentic contributions and references are welcomed

This is a good written article. The discussion between Pathan and Pakhtun or Pashtun are needless. Pushtunwali is also regarded as only "PATHO" in many areas. The point that Pashtunwali is a religion or social law or tradition is still another topic. Al Biruni, writing in Tarikh al Hind, also alludes to the Pashtun tribes of Pakhtunkhwa as being neither Muslim nor Hindu, but simply Afghans which may mean that they practiced Pashtunwali.(1) What was that religion is unknown. Some say they used to practice Mosaic law perhaps Sabians.(2) Perhaps the Pashtunwali laws have been taken from Torah or Zabuur (i.e. the Psalms).

1:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_conquest_of_Afghanistan 2:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabians —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tariq5 (talk • contribs) 23:17, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

I edited whole article

I reduced the word count of the article by removing some weasel words and academic language.

I tried not to change the meaning.

There is some nice poetic language in this article which I tried to respect.

There is still a lot of cuts and tidying that could be done to make this feel more encyclopedic. Some parts read like an advertisement. And I'm not sure about the phrase "space time continuum."

I took out one "5000 years" because it appears at the top.

I also changed a couple "almighty god"s to just "god." Hilary Gage (talk) 07:58, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to go through and edit out some of the passive voice Elwin-bennington (talk) 17:34, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

general feedback

I'm somewhat torn by this article.

1. The positives. - it i beautifully beautifully laid out - it's interesting, has good links, and is informative

2. The negatives -not at all neutrally expressed. If the proverbial man from mars were to read he article, he would think afghanistan / the border areas of pakistan was a paradise on earth. And without wishing to get into the history or the politics, they aren't a paradise, nor even close to one. Two examples: Pushtunwali does allow for a blood feud (but also provided mechanisms for resolving such a feud); and it does allow for keeping women in seclusion. In an english language treatment of the subject, this is noteworthy, per the wikipedia guidelines.

Of course these aren't all of pushtunwali, and it's really welcome that the article provides other areas. But really: the contributors here should save themselves endless annoyance; create a seperate section "criticisms made of pushtunwali", and link to a seperate page. It will make all the difference.

213.200.213.157 (talk) 20:08, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

thank you, I will reply to feedback

Blood feuds are mentioned(under Nyaw Aw Badal and under my section on pashtunwali and gender. seclusion of women does merit a mention I will look into it.

POV Issues

The article seems to promote its subject throughout without really telling the reader much about Pashtunwali. Everyone values "righteousness" and "justice" and "bravery." Almost all of the content should be cut or rewritten. --Nogburt (talk) 22:46, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

It explains what righteousness and justice mean in the Pashtun mentality, as for bravery it is more central in Pashtunwali than in other codes(part of the reason for the ‘graveyard of empires’ concept and winning wars against the British Empire in the 19th century and the Soviet Union in the 20th century)

It's been more than 8 years since issues with this article have been raised and biased content is still being added back in. If the "main principles" section cannot be written in an objective way, it should be deleted. Nogburt (talk) 17:46, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

POV pushing by Mar4d

User:Mar4d asserts that this Pashtunwali is widely practiced but this is considered unsourced POV. That's like saying that Taliban style rule is widely accepted by Pashtuns and that would be false. As far as I know it is only practiced in some areas and by some Pashtuns.--Fareed30 (talk) 12:49, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Pashtunwali. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070927220606/http://www.dawn.com/weekly/books/archive/060813/books16.htm to http://www.dawn.com/weekly/books/archive/060813/books16.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers. —^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 18:53, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Confusing ending to Nyaw aw Badal (justice and revenge)

The paragraph about Nyaw aw Badal (justice and revenge) ends with "Normally blood feuds in this male-dominated society are settled in a number of ways." I would have expected that the ways be listed but perhaps that's off topic and the sentence could be deleted if it's not essential to understanding Nyaw aw Badal. --Marc Kupper|talk 07:51, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Monetary compensation and arranged marriages same the main ways from what I have read.

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Pashtunwali. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100127081653/http://www.cal.org/co/afghan/apeop.html to http://www.cal.org/co/afghan/apeop.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141021134341/http://csis.org/blog/why-are-customary-pashtun-laws-and-ethics-causes-concern to http://csis.org/blog/why-are-customary-pashtun-laws-and-ethics-causes-concern
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141006105402/http://pakhtun.com/index.php/about-pashtuns/pakhtunwali?start=2 to http://pakhtun.com/index.php/about-pashtuns/pakhtunwali?start=2

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 10:59, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

Neutrality and Accuracy Revisited

Reading this I’m led to suspect there are some violations of NPOV and issues with accuracy. I am unqualified to make changes, but based on the page history and comments below (many of them old), I hope someone can take a look.

A lot of the language seems like it’s describing a university’s admission policy or a social justice activists goals (for example without regard for race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, or economic stats). It does not seem like an ethnic code developed over 1,700 years. The result is that I get a sense the authors are saying “isn’t this just perfect!” Moreover, while I know little about it, news articles on Pashtun culture (specifically describing Pashtunwali’s role in Taliban ideology) have at least indirectly conflicted with some this article’s points.

I’m not suggesting we add a criticism section. I’m merely hoping a knowledgeable individual take a crack at digging through this article. Jgalt87 (talk) 14:35, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

This is a very thoughtful and accurate reflection. This article desperately needs revision as it constitutes misinformation and misrepresentation on one side and a disservice to the Wikipedia community and readers on the other. PX2N (talk) 11:49, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

I added a criticism section.

explanation

I reverted a questionable anon edit. It looked like editorializing. If you made it, could you explain it more fully, here? Please consider creating a wiki-ID. Geo Swan (talk) 17:35, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

The ethnic Afghans one or the Pashtunisation one?

Problems

A quick check shows that there are different views of the principles. Eg the article doesn' mention that protecting women includes them not being allowed to show their fact to a stranger.

Then there's the "main components" which are 11. That seems to be an arbitrary number, particularly since the main source, Banting, doesn't list 11.

And that takes me to Banting. She's a writer of children's books and fails as a source for this article. Her book was added here as a source but it doesn't actually back the text. This bit of the article in particular is a mess. Doug Weller talk 11:37, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Does the fact she writes children's books make her unreliable? it makes her work simple but surely the detail can be found elsewhere.

Lone Survivor

The 2013 film lone Survivor is based on a true story of a Navy SEAL being rescued by a Pashtun tribe member. Worth linking to and expanding on? Mikejburden (talk) 21:17, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Revision Request

This article needs to be revised for the following reasons

It does not follow Wikipedia standards in the following areas

• Tone: It is not written in a formal tone.
• Inappropriate lists: The content contains information that is not relevant for the purpose of describing "Pashtunwali" accurately and neutrally per the concept of Pashtunwali according to Pashtuns in the context of Pashtu Language
• Lead Section: The lead section does not follow a logical format
• Use other languages sparingly: The choice of English terminology for the respective Pashtu terms is extremely poor, diminutive, and very misleading.
• Use clear, precise and accurate terms: The terminology, sentence structure, syntax, context, and concepts are poor
• Principle of least astonishment: The choice of equivalent terms in certain cases is astonishing. None of these terms have equivalent terms in English to begin with, therefore, an English term used for these Pashtu terms should convey the same meaning in its concept, and application, which is not the case here.
• Provide context for reader: The article does a poor job at providing any appropriate context. This article is about Pashtunwali, which applicable and relevant to over 60 million people worldwide. The code itself is embedded in the language of Pashtu, and an inheritor of the language innately inherits it, first and foremost, through the language itself. And this language is not written with that in mind.
• Provide context for reader: Pashtunwali or any code of conduct that dictates and governs the behavior of an individual along with the behavior of groups on multiple level of its organizational structure ought to be abstract, philosophical, pluripotent and dynamic in nature, and that aspect of Pashtunwali does not reflect in this article at all. And that constitutes misinformation, and it leads to very reductive and astonishing conclusions.
• Use clear, precise and accurate terms: The article used erroneous, diminutive, and counterfactual terms that does not reflect Pashtunwali in a way it is perceived by Pashtuns. The article contains political terms (Pashtunistan), demonyms (Afghaniyat), and misnomers (Revenge for Badal), leading to a very inaccurate perception of Pashtunwali
• Pashtunwali is millennia old, and it went through the evolutionary process throughout its course, and has gone through the same evolutionary and selective pressure that any living system of its kind would go through, therefore the article should have a linguistic, anthropological, philosophical and academic tone to it, as dictated by the subject and its depth itself, and that aspect is not reflected in this article.
• Some of the references used are outdated, contentious and biased.
• Evaluating context: If a native English speaker reads this picayune article, based on the jargon, tone, inaccuracies, and lack of depth, gives Pashtunwali the perception of a Parallel Play, or perhaps an Associative Play at its best. And this constitutes misinformation, on both sides, a disservice to Wikipedia readers and the appropriation of a culture.
• In the last 10 years, there has been a lot of extensive rigorous, detailed and factual research conducted on Pashtu/n/s, and Pashtunwali through Linguistic, Anthropologic, and Logic lenses signifying the universal and overarching principle (agnostic of political, religious, and ethnocentric views), and that academic research work, terminology, references and concepts should be highlighted in this article. Which will show Pashtu/n/s and Pashtunwali through a humanistic, universal and relatable point of view. It will demystify Pashtu/n/s and Pashtunwali, will phase out the many misconceptions about the language and the group leading to an understanding that will foster connections and relations between Pashtuns and non-Pashtun, benefitting both sides.
• While keeping in mind everything I have just mentioned. I will lay the foundation. I have an alternative write-up for the misnomer "revenge". It explains Badal, first and foremost linguistically, then culturally, and third through the context of its application, abstract nature, and its presence in many other Pashtu words/terms/concepts and Pashtun practices in various forms. I spent a lot of time formulating this concise yet comprehensive write up and it has taken years of research, and comprehensive knowledge of Pashtu/n/wali, along with native knowledge of the English language and its application among people who speak and understand English.

PX2N (talk) 09:56, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

Badal: Not Revenge

Badal: Not Revenge

I posted the following to the Pashtunwali Wikipedia page, and it was deleted. May I get a sound feedback and suggestions of modification. Thank you!

The nature of the article is academic, however, considering the abstract, and dynamic nature of the term, it requires such approach and language because this is related to the language and culture of about 70 million people and per Wikipedia guidelines, formal, precise, accurate and contextual aspects should be kept in mind while writing on such topics and the alternatives do not do justice to the depth, application, concept, and the dynamic nature of the term.

Please suggest any alternative terms, however, any suggested term should accurately reflect the essence of this term as described by all the given linguistic and cultural examples, meanings and applications.

  — Preceding unsigned comment added by PX2N (talk • contribs) 12:15, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

• "Badal / بدل or B̈D̄L̊ / بْٙدْٙلْٙ: (Pashtu spelling based on phonetics and diacritics): [url]
• Consisting of just three consonants equivalent to the English Language B, D, and L. It has no equivalent term in English in its meaning or spelling. Its pronunciation varies among Pashtu speakers, but the given Pashtu and English spelling is the best orthographic representation, accounting for multiple possible pronunciations. It is a “root” and a “Polysemy,” and it morphs into a plethora of words in various forms based on Senses. These senses are historically or semantically related, and their selection depends on the context, giving rise to many conceptual and literal meanings.  As a free Phoneme, it is a Mass Noun.
• The term denotes a dogma, a doctrine, and a discipline.  And it is the axiom of Pashtu (as a verbal noun) and Pashtunwali (the Pashtun Code of Conduct). It permeates and reverberates into many other basic tenets of Pashtu and Pashtunwali. The closest English equivalent term that conveys a similar concept and meaning is “Reciprocity”. At its means “the Reciprocity of an equal value”. The following are some of the basic tenets of Pashtu and Pashtunwali where you see the reflection of this axiom in many different forms.[url] [url] [url]
• The Semantics and Morphology of “Badal’[1] [2] [3][4]
• As a semantic root, this term appears in all foundational principles and tenets of Pashtu and Pashtunwali. Each permuted term uses variables such as Indicators, Determiners, Inflections, various Vocatives, various verb forms, three Verb-Noun forms, Adverb forms, Participle forms, different transitive verb forms,  Root + Stem forms, and reduplication forms.  And each manifestation leads to a different literal and conceptual meaning. Here is a list of some terms that are spelled and pronounced the same way. These resulting terms form some of the most important concepts and practices relevant to Pashtu and Pashtunwali.
• Badal / بدل: It means a discourse. In Pashtun culture, this form of Badal takes place in both written (poetry) and spoken (folksong) forms. One of the inflected forms of this term is “Badala/ بدله “. Some Pashtuns refer to Badala as a song/folksong, and others refer to it as a specific genre of Pashtu folk singing; nevertheless, both of its applications carry the same conceptual meaning. However, as a specific genre of Pashtu folk singing, it is a very well-developed musical tradition among Pashtuns.
• Badal / بدل: Here it means exchange as in badal'wada_ بدل واده “exchange marriage” (based on cultural application/concept/meaning). This is when two families exchange brides”.   “هغوی د بدل واده وکړ” (Haghoy da badal wāda wakṛ.) meaning,“They entered into an exchange marriage”.
• Badal /بدل: As a free phoneme here, it means “exchange of an equal value; literal or perceived”. In this context, the term is agnostic to whether this exchange is good or bad. As a noun, the sentence “ما ډالر په افغانیو بدل کړل”/(Mā dālar pa afghāniyo badal kṛal.) means “I exchanged dollars for afghanis”. Here you exchanged one currency for another currency of equal value. [url]
• In one of its inflected forms, it becomes “Badla/ بدله”. Though it is written the same way as the first “Badla/folksong”, this one is pronounced slightly differently because the speaker puts “stress” on different parts of the word. It means revenge. Now, when you add an infinitive verb “ اخیستل “ (taking, receiving) to it and turn it into a verb-noun, “بدله اخیستل”, then the phrase means “revenge taking”. This is the one manifestation that has been used diminutively and extensively as its fundamental meaning. “  هغه بدله واخیسته” meaning “He took revenge,”.[5]
• Badal / بدل: This badal means “swap” or “exchange based on barter. ”. ما غنم په وریجو بدل کړل.” (Mā ghanam pa wrijo badal kṛal.) means “I bartered wheat for rice.”
• Badal / بدل: This Badal means change, changing, transformation, and alteration. “هر څه بدل شول.” meaning “Everything changed”. Now, on the same token, take the same inflicted form “بدله” and add the infinitive verb “خلاصول” meaning (to free/to release/to open/to finish/to complete), then basically it means you are returning a credit of goodwill, or a good deed. This is used in the context that when someone does good to you, then you are obligated to return it. And this concept is just as strong among Pashtuns as the concept of “taking revenge”. “ ښه کار بدله خلاصول پکار دي”, “Da kha kār badla khlāsawal pakār di.), meaning “Good deeds should be repaid/returned.”

{{db-g7|rationale=essay}}

• Badal / بدل: This Badal means “replace or return”.   “هغه زوړ موټر په نوي موټر بدل کړ”, (Hagha zoṛ moṭar pa nawī moṭar badal kṛ.), meaning, “He replaced the old car with a new one”.

Now each of these “Badals” has many different forms based on various semantic aspects of Pashtu. And it results in countless variations of meanings, concepts, and applications.

Here are some words that are based on “Badal”.

As a noun(of various kinds), it conveys different concepts/meanings in different contexts:

Badal'Badal بدل'بدل: various (when used as "reduplication ")

Badloon بدلون: change, alteration, transformation, modification

Badlee  بدلي: change, exchange, replacement, transfer

Badlai بدلي: replacement, spare, transferred, changed, exchanged

Badlau بدلاو / بدلاؤ: shift, transformation, alteration, change

Badlawal بدلول: changing, transforming (stative. comp. trans. verb)

These are just a few examples; this term means a lot of things depending on the context, its literal or conceptual meaning, and the semantics of it. According to Pashto.com, this term is “spurious”.[1]

There is a mathematical concept, used in logic, linguistics, and computer science called “Recursion”[2] which exists in Pashtu based on linguistics (phonetics/morphology/semantics/grammar). And the above is a good example of that." PX2N (talk) 12:07, 14 June 2026 (UTC)