Talk:History of Japan

Self-contradictory pair of sentences in the article and the strong reality distortion field of faux Tokugawa nostalgia.

> The Tokugawa shogunate, which governed from Edo (modern Tokyo), presided over a prosperous and peaceful era known as the Edo period (1600–1868). The Tokugawa shogunate imposed a strict class system on Japanese society and cut off almost all contact with the outside world.

These adjacent sentences in the article directly contradict each other, because:

1. A society with a strict class system cannot be prosperous, as that stance blocks social climbing by talented and ambitious people who could bring on progress. Without progress and the resulting growth there is no prosperity. In fact, Tokugawa-era Japan was a poor agricultural nation compared to early modern western Europe, and japanese villagers serfs were literally dropping their toddlers into seaside caves spartan "Taygetos" style, so as to feed fewer mouths. (The japanese don't deny that, it's mentioned casually even on TV as a known and settled part of their history.)

2. A nation which almost entirely isolates itself cannot become or remain prosperous, since it's missing access to resources and inventions available elsewhere, as well as missing the economic growth generated by trade and commerce services sectors. Cue how the Island of Japan is naturally poor in major industrial resources (e.g. no oil, and little iron ore) and the fallacy becomes obvious. By 1712, piston steam engines were bobbing in english mines, by the time of 1850s Perry expeditions, petroleum was drilled for in the USA and soon the russian Caucasus.

Thus the article's text needs to be revised to reflect reality, instead of a faux Tokugawa "pastoral idyll" painted by anime-toka, manga-toka... Furthermore, to read in english that japanese isolation and caste system meant prosperous, is a particularly grating experience as english is the language of liberty and freedom (of enterprise)! ~2025-42493-08 (talk) 01:24, 23 December 2025 (UTC)

"literally dropping their toddlers into seaside caves spartan "Taygetos" style, so as to feed fewer mouths" Your point being? Throughout human history, infanticide has been rather common. The main point is the "prevention of resources being spent on weak or disabled offspring". And thankfully, the practice outlived the Tokugawa shogunate by decades. Infanticide is an important element of the Meiji era. Per the main article on infanticide:

• • "Since feudal Edo era Japan, the common slang for infanticide was mabiki (間引き), which means to pull plants from an overcrowded garden. A typical method in Japan was smothering the baby's mouth and nose with wet paper. It became common as a method of population control. Farmers would often kill their second or third sons. Daughters were usually spared, as they could be married off, sold off as servants or prostitutes, or sent off to become geishas. Mabiki persisted in the 19th century and early 20th century. According to one estimate, at least 97% of homicide victims in Japan in 1900 were newborns. To bear twins was perceived as barbarous and unlucky and efforts were made to hide or kill one or both twins." Dimadick (talk) 13:54, 24 December 2025 (UTC)

"Japanese history." listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Japanese history. has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2026 February 5 § Japanese history. until a consensus is reached. Mathguy2718 (talk) 15:16, 5 February 2026 (UTC)

Concept of Barbarian needs detailed section. It drives motivations of Japanese rulers over centuries

The ideas of opposing the barbarians arise over many centuries of Japanese history.

• Shogun - Commander-in-Chief of the Expeditionary Force Against the Barbarians
• Sonnō jōi - revere the emperor, expel the barbarians
• Emishi - 蝦夷, composed of the characters for "shrimp" and "barbarian".
• Ainu - Japanese government and mainstream population regarded them as dirty and primitive barbarians
• Ezochi (蝦夷地) meaning either "land of the barbarians"
• Colonisation of Hokkaido - abode of a barbarian folk

It appears to arise from a societal implememntation of othering developed around growing Japanese cultural attributes from:

• a tribal period - Yayoi period
• into a chiefdom period - Yamato's rise
• eventually into a nation period.

The barbarian concept survived well into a fully fledged nation.

• But when did the barbarian kanji first appear?
• How did the culture define barbarian differently as it developed?
• Did competing cultures over Japanese history use 'barbarian'?
• Is this othering of the barbarian ethnic or race based? Was it always?

The Barbarian article has only this single sentence about Japan"

Japan When Europeans came to Japan, they were called nanban (南蛮), literally Barbarians from the South, because the Portuguese ships appeared to sail from the South. The Dutch, who arrived later, were also called either nanban or kōmō (紅毛), literally meaning "Red Hair."

I'm watching Princess Mononoke for the first time and it appears to center the barbarians (character calls them the Emishi) as the heroes in a struggle against iron using Shogun to the west that have driven them to the east in exile. A type of subversive tale from the historical narrative?

The background information on Japanese historical concept of barbarian, and how the epithet developed, would be helpful to understanding the deeper conflict in this movie and the wider Japanese history article.

Part of the section can be moved into Princess Mononoke as background to the plot. This movie is currently ranked #82 by viewers at IMDB and I'm doing a watch thru of highly rated movies hence my appearance on this page. Deep dives and historical background ~2026-37306-68 (talk) 05:42, 30 June 2026 (UTC)