Talk:George Freeth/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Nominator: Pickbard (talk · contribs) 18:04, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Z1720 (talk · contribs) 01:43, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

Starting this review soon.

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable, as shown by a source spot-check.

   a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Initial thoughts:

• The lead does not cover all major aspects of the article. I suggest that there be at least one line from every heading in the lead.
• Article sections are quite large. I suggest splitting them up using level 3 headings.
• There are several paragraphs without citations. There should be a citation at the end of every paragraph, minimum.
• It will be quite hard to verify most of the information from "Surf and Rescue: George Freeth and the Birth of California Beach Culture" because page numbers are not included. If possible, please include the page numbers in each reference.
• Captions should describe what is in the image. The "Head Swimming Coach, Los Angeles Athletic Club" caption should state that it is depicting Freeth. If "Freeth's legacy embodies the California beach lifestyle" is depicting Freeth, the caption should state which one of the two is him.

@Pickbard: Are you still interested in continuing this review? If so, please let me know below and begin responding to the comments. Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks and happy editing! Z1720 (talk) 14:02, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

Yes, thank you for the review. I'll begin to incorporate your suggestions. Pickbard (talk) 14:28, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

Also, what's the best way to incorporate page numbers on citations? Pickbard (talk) 14:31, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

I've tried to put them in before but then it creates a whole separate citation. Pickbard (talk) 14:36, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

• @Pickbard: There are a couple of options. In William Lyon Mackenzie I used Template:sfn to have page numbers, then a "Works cited" section underneath. Template:harv does something similar. It is also acceptable to have a full citation to the work for each page number. Pick the style that you think works best for you and the article. Z1720 (talk) 16:01, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

  Okay, thank you for the suggestions! Pickbard (talk) 20:19, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

• @Pickbard: Are you still working on this? Z1720 (talk) 03:22, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

  Yes, thanks for checking in. I'll have the entry updated by this upcoming weekend. Pickbard (talk) 14:13, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

  @Z1720Hello Z1720. Thanks for your patience. I've updated the page, following your suggestions. Many thanks for your help. Pickbard (talk) 23:39, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

@Pickbard: Sorry for the delay. Here are additional comments:

• There is too much information about Freeth's ancestors. If these people are notable, the information about them should be in their own articles.
• "Freeth's blend of heritages allowed him to bridge distinct cultures connecting him both to Western ideals..." This whole paragraph should be moved into a "Legacy" section.
• "At this time, Waikiki was a 45-minute tram ride from Honolulu. The region was home to agriculture and surfing rather than a hub of tourism." Off-topic: suggest removing.
• "adapted to a Spartan existence." What does this mean? Wikilink or describe using other phrasing.
• "The Lifesaving Corps was begun by Venice's founder, Abbot Kinney, after two local men drowned a couple months before Freeth arrived." off-topic, suggest removing.
• "“Get in and wrestle with the sea; wing your heels with the skill and power that reside in you; bit the sea’s breakers, master them, and ride upon their backs as a king should.”" This is off-topic, and should be removed. If not, replace the curly quotes with straight quotes.
• "Theft of bust" section should be in legacy.
• "Devastating numbers of people died during the 1918-1919 flu pandemic: approximately 675,000 in the United States and an estimated 50 million worldwide. In San Diego, waves of the virus caused city-wide quarantines. Despite his vigorous health from years spent in the surf," Delete all of this as off-topic.
• "The positive response by various organizations that raised money to help Freeth is an example of the strong community he had established in California despite having moved around so often." Delete: not necessary.
• " embracing Freeth's heroic and brave characteristics, " This type of statement is using WP:WIKIVOICE to attribute positive qualitative adjectives to this person, which is discouraged on Wikipedia articles. Instead, state the opinion of individuals, and attribute it to them. Wikipedia cannot call someone brave or heroic.
• "The news of Freeth's death carried to the east coast where the New York Tribune offered these words of remembrance:..." This whole paragraph is too long, and the quote too long. Long quotes create copyright concerns and are not usually read by readers. Instead, summarise the information.
• "book about swimming, Swimming Simplified." Avoid external links in the body of the article.
• Overall, the legacy section contains a lot of repetitive information. If something is stated earlier in the article, like that he was prevented from participating in the Olympics, the information does not need to be repeated in the Legacy. This will help reduce the length of the legacy section.

Please ping when the above are addressed. Z1720 (talk) 01:26, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

Thank you Z1720 for taking the time to review the changes. I've put in your further suggestions. Pickbard (talk) 20:34, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

Source check

Most of the article relies on Moser 2022. I do not have access to this, so I am AGF on the integrity check of those sources.

• Checked with no issues: New York Tribune, Lin Il, Verge, London.
• "McDermott 2010, p. NP." is missing a citation,
• "Cleghorn, Thomas A. K.; Cleghorn, Nellie Yarnell Maxwell; Argow, Dorothy; Allen, Katherine B. (1979)." is listed as a citation but is not used as an inline citation
• Earwig detects no plagiarism concerns

Image check

• Permissions are good, captions are good, no concerns.

Pickbard After the above are addressed, I'll do another prose check. Z1720 (talk) 21:55, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

The issues have been resolved. Thank you Z1720. Pickbard (talk) 01:01, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

Pass. All concerns resolved. Congratulations. Please give the bots a few moments to update everything. Z1720 (talk) 01:25, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.