Talk:Elena Basile

Noticeability issues

Noticeability issues:

1. The article indicates "author" as first "noticeable" activity. This was added suddenly in the last days but, besides a generic list of book titles in the specific "Bibliography" paragraph, the article does not describe at all her career as a "writer". Furthermore, almost all books appear as being edited by minor or niche publishers. There is no evidence (and no source at all) about the relevant evaluation as "noticeable author" from the secondary specialized sources. It is a strange coincidence that "author" and related bibliografphy were added together with the citation of a new book just published in 2023, while until a few days ago nothing was mentioned at all about this second activity
2. The article presents her as "ambassador" based on Italian newspaper articles that simplify her actual role using the term "ambassador. From a technical point of view, she was representing Italy as "envoy", slightly less than "ambassador" (apparently, according to sources different than the newspapers, she was never formally appointed as such). The remainder of her diplomat career apparently does not show roles or charges such as to justify a noticeability as diplomat

No reliable secondary sources are cited, besides pure citation of her name in press articles or similar. A Salty Cat (talk) 21:20, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

1. She was appointed ambassador and then she served as ambassador in Bruxelles, as plenty of RSs state. She left the diplomatic service with the rank of plenipotentiary, which is lower than ambassador, but that's hardly relevant since RSs describe her for her activities rather than her position within the office hierarchy/administrative rank, so we should do the same.
2. We should mention that she's a writer because RSs report this information. For instance La7 says "Former diplomat, writer, Knight of Merit of the Republic" ; Sky TG24 says "Basile is not only a diplomat but also a writer" . The article should describe her activities as a writer, and also as columnist and commentator. Her controversial views on Ukraine and also on Israel-Hamas should be included in the article, as they are widely covered in the media. So this revert is not OK. Yes, it is "a personal opinion released to the press", she didn't write in her official capacity as ambassador - so what? dozens of newspapers are publishing reports about Basile becuase of her opinions, so they undoubtedly belong on this page, which is not about Italy's official foreign policy, but Basile.

Gitz (talk) (contribs) 22:07, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

The publisher “La nave di Teseo” is not a niche or minor publisher. It is actually the publisher of Umberto Eco and their books are often in the top ten of most sold books in Italy. 79.129.206.2 (talk) 22:16, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Notability issue adequately addressed?

When the notability tag and the clarify tag were added the article was very different. Since then, I have added several independent RSs and expanded the text considerably (subsections "Columnist and commentator" and "Writer"). With regard to Basile being also a writer/author, that's what RSs say and we should do the same, although - I agree with A Salt Cat on this - we should not include "writer" as Basile's first activity. Shouldn't we now remove the notability and clarify templates? Gitz (talk) (contribs) 20:02, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Facebook video about Liliana Segre

I'm not sure this edit Special:Diff/1205030748 is WP:DUE.

So basically Basile posted a video on Facebook criticising Liliana Segre for statements that Sagre had not made; when Segre's family reacted and threatened legal action, Basile admitted her mistake and apologised publicly. Quoted sources: Rai News, Fatto quotidiano. Good news coverage though, e.g., Repubblica, Corriere della Sera, La Stampa, Il Giorno, TGla7, TG24Sky, Open, Avvenire, HuffPostIt.

Aren't we lacking WP:PROPORTION and overemphasising breaking news and recent events per WP:NOTNEWS and WP:RECENT?

I don't know, I'll leave it in the article for now and start this thread. Gitz (talk) (contribs) 11:40, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

I shortened the text: Special:Diff/1210688442. Gitz (talk) (contribs) 22:03, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Ambassador or pro-tempore head of mission?

Regarding Bettylalla's edits that replaced served as ambassador with served as pro-tempore head of mission, I believe the original wording is more accurate and balanced. The cited souces state:

• Elena Basile, Ambassadeur de la République Italienne (Brussels Diplomatic 2017)
• L’Ambasciatrice d’Italia in Belgio, Elena Basile (Ambasciata d'Italia, Bruxelles, 2020)
• L’Ambasciatrice d’Italia in Belgio, Elena Basile (EU news 2020)
• The diplomats' union, Sndmae, [states that] "Dr Basile did in fact resign from her diplomatic career with the rank of minister plenipotentiary, and although, after serving in Tananarive, Toronto, Budapest and Lisbon, she also held the pro tempore functions of head of mission in Sweden and Belgium during the course of her career, she was never promoted to the rank of ambassador [...]". (Open 2023, DeepL transaltion)

On the balance of sources, I think that "served as ambassador" is preferable.

First, "served as ambassador" refers to the function (diplomat representing the state in a foreign country) and not to the internal ranking within the Italian diplomatic service. As for her rank, the lead already clearly states that she left the diplomatic service with the rank of plenipotentiary. As for her function, there is no doubt that she served as an ambassador to Sweden and Belgium.

Secondly, the view of the diplomats' union, Sndmae, is significant, but should not prevail over the predominant and better quality sources, which constantly refer to her as "ambassador" before 2023. In 2023, Basile became a controversial figure in Italy, but WP:RECENT suggests that we should not pay too much attention to current controversies, such as the view of a trade union focused on the notion that "Basile is not a real ambassador". Besides, in assessing due weight we should also bear in mind WP:BIASED: the quoted diplomats' trade union condemns [Basile's] public statements and interventions that cast a shadow on the loyalty to republican values of members of the same career, such as those made by our colleague (DeepL translation). Gitz (talk) (contribs) 18:00, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. I would still propose a qualification in the incipit as the term "ambassador" gives a person a higher authority . I propose "served as ambassador, whilst being a pro-tempore head of mission, to Sweden and Belgium". If you want, to be fully objective, you could mention the fact that it is the diplomats' union which precised the exact role. I agree with you that Wikipedia has to stay neutral in the debate. Thanking you for your work. Bettylella (talk) 17:51, 29 March 2025 (UTC)

I'm not enthusiastic about the change, but for the sake of consensus I'm ready to accept it. As to mentioning the SNDMAE's clarifications, I wouldn't place them in the lead. If you think they are worth of inclusion, they could belong to the bottom of the "Diplomatic career" section, e.g., "In 2023, SNDMAE, the diplomats' union, criticized Basile's views expressed in her journal commentaries, clarifying that she retired as a minister plenipotentiary, not an ambassador, having served as pro tempore head of mission in Sweden and Belgium". Gitz (talk) (contribs) 21:57, 29 March 2025 (UTC)