Talk:Darth Maul

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• Screenshot of Ray Park as Darth Maul in The Phantom Menace.png

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Requested move 24 September 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Closed: withdrawn without any additional support. (non-admin closure) kennethaw88 • talk 18:48, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

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Darth Maul → Maul (Star Wars)Maul (Star Wars) – The character is known as simply Maul in Rebels, The Clone Wars, and comics. I believe that Maul is the more common name over Darth Maul in every instance since the character was brought back for The Clone Wars, and thus the article should probably be moved per the common name policy. Unnamed anon (talk) 02:51, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME.--Ortizesp (talk) 13:59, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. El Millo (talk) 14:03, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose per User:Ortizesp and User:Facu-el Millo. JIP | Talk 16:02, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose for same reason as above users. Cerebral726 (talk) 17:15, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
• Snowclose; everyone so far has opposed, and the author has withdrawn. O.N.R. ^(talk) 18:26, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

As the original and so far only person who wants to move this page, I Withdraw this request. Unnamed anon (talk) 18:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 15 March 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: NOT MOVED - Red Slash 21:48, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

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Darth Maul → Maul (Star Wars)Maul (Star Wars) – Primary sources such as Clone Wars and Rebels have primarily called him just Maul since 2012, but a lot of secondary sources have stuck with the old name since he had a 15 year absence from the series and was known as Darth Maul before and during that absence, and maybe because the new name is barely different from the old one. I'd argue that Darth Maul is no longer his WP:COMMONNAME anymore due to primary sources just using Maul, and to whoever wishes to say that Darth Maul is still his COMMONNAME, I'd like to hear why instead of just giving the policy as a reason when currently primary sources have changed the COMMONNAME. Should COMMONNAME be given more weight on the primary sources that give the material existence or the secondary sources that give it notability? Unnamed anon (talk) 05:54, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

Palpatine is a good point of reference for this. We use the secondary-source preference, not the name he was introduced with or his 'true' in-universe names. UpdateNerd (talk) 06:25, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

Palpatine is still constantly referred to by that name by other characters, even in the sequel trilogy. However, while I don't think Maul has been referred to with Darth in any official Star Wars material since his death was retconned, I appreciate your answer for secondary source preference, which does still use Darth Maul. I do want to bring up Grogu, whose page was his official name "The Child" instead of his colloquial name "Baby Yoda" prior to his name reveal, but ultimately Maul and Darth Maul are such similar names that I'm fine if the page stays as is, though I'd still like to keep this discussion open for a bit. Unnamed anon (talk) 08:02, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

Since Grogu's name reveal, most people know him by that. No one called him "The Child" except in-universe. Maul's debut role as the main villain of The Phantom Menace is far more notable than the animated series or spin-off movie featuring him. Until the secondary sources change, there isn't a reason to drop "Darth" from the article name. See also Darth Vader, whose backstory has been expansively developed under the Anakin Skywalker identity, which Vader eventually returns to; however, his villainous role is still more commonly known. UpdateNerd (talk) 08:49, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

I actually believe Palpatine is a good example as to why this article should be renamed to simply "Maul". Secondary sources rarely refer to Palpatine as simply "Palpatine"; he is more commonly referred to as either "Emperor Palpatine" or "Darth Sidious". Yet, because the character did not spend the entirety of his tenure in the Star Wars canon as The Emperor, his Wikipedia article is simply named "Palpatine" as it more accurately represents his role in the franchise as a whole (and not just the Original Trilogy). I would also argue that Maul's role in The Clone Wars and Rebels are more significant than his appearance in The Phantom Menace, which did very little to establish Maul as an individual character. Even starwars.com now lists the character as "Maul" in his designated character biography. JokEobard (talk) 05:49, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

Maul did have a bigger role in the clone wars and rebels, but the phantom menace is what made him notable enough to return in the first place, and his most famous appearance. I think a good compromise would be to keep the page name as his most famous name (Darth Maul), but at the very least mention in the first sentence and infobox that some material just calls him Maul. Of course, prose referring to certain material should use Darth Maul when referring to TPM and just Maul when referring to TCW and Rebels. Unnamed anon (talk) 07:40, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

I see your point and I'd agree with that compromise. The article's name should remain "Darth Maul", but the first sentence should start off with "Maul, formerly Darth Maul, is..." given that the character has been officially credited as the former in far more Star Wars projects than the latter. This would more accurately represent the character's status in the franchise since renouncing his Sith title was such a large part of Maul's arc following The Clone Wars and during Rebels. JokEobard (talk) 08:06, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

I reverted this change because we shouldn't portray some works as being 'present' and others as 'past'. As it concerns Palpatine, "The Emperor" wouldn't make sense because he didn't occupy that role throughout his also-famous portrayal in the prequel trilogy. "Darth Sidious" is an in-universe moniker which would make sense for Wookieepedia, as is the case with "Maul". But we need to respect both primary and secondary sources in a sensible way, without pandering to fandom. Going by viewership, many people watched the mainstream episodic films without ever seeing the more fan-centric animated series; it'd be difficult to prove that the reverse is (more significantly) true. UpdateNerd (talk) 08:44, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose move per WP:COMMONNAME, for the same reasons as last time. Secondary sources tend to include the "Darth" in his name, and including it means we don't need a parenthetical. O.N.R. ^(talk) 03:15, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. "Darth Maul" is overwhelmingly the WP:COMMONNAME and what he was referred to as in his most notable appearance (The Phantom Menace). Secondary, reliable sources continue to refer to him as "Darth Maul", so we should too. JOEBRO64 19:02, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:NATURAL.--Ortizesp (talk) 01:25, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. When I did a Google Search, I did see some instances of just "Maul", but the coverage seemed to lean toward the full "Darth Maul" name from my experience. Because of this, I agree that it seems to be the WP:COMMONNAME. Aoba47 (talk) 13:02, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

He’s a very well known character, like Grievous, Vader, and Palpatine.

Could someone please put a lock for non-logged in users to prevent vandalism? 2600:1702:46A8:D70:B80E:A45:34C1:31A8 (talk) 13:43, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, I think it also needs to be protected. Jaxbarina (talk) 22:23, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Assertion of notability

Hi, I've opened a discussion at the Star Wars WikiProject regarding articles having few or no citations asserting notability, and I invite any interested editors to participate and help rectify this issue. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 20:30, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Darth Maul Wiki Page Misinformation Alert

Hello from Iain McCaig, the concept artist behind the design for Darth Maul.

The story of how I created that design is well-documented (https://www.starwars.com/news/from-the-pages-of-star-wars-insider-iain-mccaig)(Starwars.com: https://www.starwars.com/news/iain-mccaig-the-phantom-menace)(https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Maul), to name only a few.

I was therefore surprised to discover that the Wiki page for DARTH MAUL, under the section: Characteristics: Concept and Creation, was full of errors and misinformation.

As I have a vested interest in making sure the true story is told, I have held off re-editing this myself, but I would appreciate it if a Wiki Editor could have a look at this entry and re-write it for accuracy. I would be happy to help in this endeavor, however I can.

Many thanks,

Iain

PS: Here are my specific problems with the current text:

--"After getting frustrated with a drawing by The Phantom Menace production designer Gavin Bocquet, concept artist Iain McCaig started covering it in tape. Both he and Director George Lucas liked the result, described as a kind of Rorschach pattern." This is pure invention. George Lucas' personal Art Department, JAK Films, was responsible for creating the Concept Designs for the Prequel films, and answered directly to George, not Gavin Bocquet. Gavin did not draw any of the characters, and I was never frustrated with his non-existant drawings. Gavin did pose for me for a sketch I did of an early incarnation of Darth Maul, on which I used Rorschach-like face markings for the first time. That drawing was pivotal in guiding me towards a final solution for the face-markings. That said, I did not, and can't imagine why I would, start 'covering it in tape'.

--'Maul's facial tattoos were inspired by the indigenous peoples of Brazil'. Again, pure invention. The facial markings were all expression lines--stylized versions of the muscles patterns of our faces, enhanced by a series of ink-blot patterns I created. The inspiration for painting an expression on his face came from Bozo the Clown, who used to terrify me as a kid. The colors are red and black because that is a danger signal in nature. The 'indigenous peoples of Brazil' had nothing to do with it.

--"Maul was described as a thing of nightmares when his art design was finished." No. I had only the name, Darth Maul, and the knowledge that he was a Sith Lord when I began designing. After the first year or so of working on the show, George delivered his script, which described Darth Maul as 'a vision from your worst nightmare'. My worst nightmare back then was an undead vampiric-like face, pressed against my studio window, his teeth made of metal and rain distorting his face. I drew this, stylizing the rain as red ribbons, and passed it in a folder to George at the next meeting. He took one look and slapped the folder closed. "Give me your second worst nightmare' he said. And that is what led to Bozo the Clown, my worst 'mythological' nightmare.

--"Maul head originally had feathers, based on prayer totems'. Maul's head did have stiffened and blackened feathers, but they were not 'prayer totems'. I imagined them as part of Maul's morning ritual, painfully binding his head with piano wire that held the stiffened feathers (I hasten to add that this was MY rational for their appearance; it was NOT a part of George's storyline). Nick Dudman did interpret the feathers as horns, and that did add to Maul's devilish appearance.

--"Another concept had Maul a masked figure, something that could rival Darth Vader, while the senatorial characters would sport painted and tattooed faces. It was later decided to apply the painted and tattooed faces to Maul rather than the senator." This implies that I was developing the masked Maul in tandem with the unmasked version, which is not true. I spent a year trying to out-helmet Darth Vader, before I gave up and took the helmet off. There was no decision to make senatorial characters sport painted and tattooed faces. What I think the writer is referring to is the design I did for the Darth Maul that Gavin Bocquet posed for. I drew it as both a head study and a full body picture, and in the latter, made him the bodyguard to one of the Senators (I did not know at this stage that he would be Palpatine's Apprentice). IMcCaig (talk) 22:37, 3 July 2025 (UTC)