Talk:Battle of Basiani

Comments

Ruler

Who is Rukn al-Din supposed to be? According to our lists of Seljuk rulers (Seljuk Turks, Sultanate of Rüm), there was no Rukn al-Din ruling at this time. Adam Bishop 00:34, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Rukn ad-Din or Rukn ud-Din was the son of Kilij Arslan II and reigned under the name of Suleiman II of Rum in 1196-1204. Kober

400,000 for Battle numbers?

Can we get these battle figures sourced? 400,000 seams *very* high... That's four times than the number of troops during the siege of Constantinople... Dinkytown talk 04:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Location of the battle

The fortress of Micingert is a little to the south-west of Sarikamish, a very long way from Erzurum and nowhere near as close as 60km to that city. Meowy 20:08, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

That's probably why the Turkish version of Micingert is not widely accepted. But the theory does exist. So it is mentioned here.--Kober^Talk 03:19, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Though there is no mention of other theories in the article, so if this theory is not widely accepted it is being given undue weight through being the only one there. I don't know what the other theories are so I can't add them in. Meowy 11:58, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

According to the Georgia article, Bsain or Basiani (ბასიანი) was historical province of Meskheti that included in the past parts from Turkey today. The name drives from the Colchisian Phasians and the latter-day regional toponyms – Byzantine Phasiane, Armenian Basean, Georgian Basiani, and Turkish Pasin. That means, if I understand correctly, that the location of the battle was Pasinler, Erzurum. that located only 40 kilometres (25 mi) east of the city of Erzurum and not 60 as mentioned. Is it correct? Geagea 23:43, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Since the exact location of the battle is unknown, I would suggest to put an approximate distance in the article, something along the line of "approximately 25-30 mi east of Erzurum". What do you think?--Kober^Talk 04:14, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

The article need to be update anyway. For example the year 1202 is different from the year in the article about Tamar (1203 or 1204). In the article it's not clear that the location is unknown. And also the connection between Basiani province and Basiani vale. if there is any, is not clear. Sorry to bother you Kober, I'll be glad if you put it in place. I also understand from your comment that my theory about the Byzantine Phasiane and Basian is only my theory. --geagea^Talk 23:14, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Ah, that's not just your theory. :) It's a valid scholarly opinion. I'll try to sort these things somehow in the following days. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. --Kober^Talk 03:52, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Kober. --geagea^Talk 09:00, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

300.000 Seljuk soldiers... It feels like you might as well write 300 Georgians vs 1.000.000 Seljuks. I can't find any source for the number of soldiers participated so I am not changing anything, but honestly I don't think any nation could have gathered that number of soldiers in those times.37.48.81.52 (talk) 11:41, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

much butthurt ? I don't think those numbers are that realistic too and yea Georgians had more problems gathered so many people than an empire which had the possibility to deploy a few times more. Georgians also saw more sense in quality rather than quantity. Tamars troops were still a design of Davids decicive miltiary reforms. The reason why Georgians won battles in which they were heavily outnumbered is because of such reforms, constant preperations / awareness and excellent leadership. They had no other choice, because they rarely could muster huge armies, especialy during endless internal rivalries TheMightyGeneral (talk) 23:52, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

"An empire" Do you think Rum was an empire? It is definetly not an empire. Its probably not even the half of modern Turkey. All numbers of Seljuks at battles againist Georgians are heavily exagrated. Because Georgians never faced whole Seljuk Empire. Even at famous Battle of Didgori they fought Ilghazi, a warlord, and several local beys. Yet modern historians still want to use heavily exagrated Middle Age Georgian sources. At Manzikert which is one of the biggest and most important battles in Seljuk history their army was about 40k. 5.176.153.44 (talk) 11:10, 14 September 2025 (UTC)

The size of the Georgian army is also exaggerated. It is unimaginable that a medieval feudal Georgian host could have fielded such a large number of warriors. Of course, the vast majority of medieval sources are biased and known for exaggerating facts, and in this regard Islamic-Turkic sources are no exception. The battles of Qatwan and Manzikert serve as good examples of this tendency. 5.152.106.148 (talk) 13:15, 27 October 2025 (UTC)