Talk:Starlight tours

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 2 September 2020 and 14 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Indigipedia, Averagestudent.ua, Destinychalifoux.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 08:42, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 11 January 2021 and 9 April 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): HaleyHam.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 08:42, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Hypothermia and this special case of titling irregularity

I have to figuratively bite my tongue re the accompanying article's title: instances of death literally by freezing are about as common as hens' teeth; plenty o' people (and probably hens) die of hypothermia, but any associated freezing almost always occurs well after death, as freezing (of pure water) occurs abt 65 Fahr. (and abt 30 Cels.) degrees below blood temp, and "One of the lowest documented body temperatures from which someone with accidental hypothermia has survived is 13.0 °C (55.4 °F)". Thus I suggest that the current title become a redirect. Jerzy (talk) 12:45, 13 March 2018‎ (UTC)

Sources to Consider

https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/canadas-prisons-are-the-new-residential-schools/ http://www.publications.gov.sk.ca/freelaw/Publications_Centre/Justice/Stonechild/Stonechild-FinalReport.pdf https://theconversation.com/remembering-neil-stonechild-and-exposing-systemic-racism-in-policing-128436 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/canadian-journal-of-political-science-revue-canadienne-de-science-politique/article/truthtelling-and-legal-discourse-a-critical-analysis-of-the-neil-stonechild-inquiry/880CDEFB3B42208601C9E6B3FAEA8266 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/canadian-journal-of-political-science-revue-canadienne-de-science-politique/article/from-stonechild-to-social-cohesion-antiracist-challenges-for-saskatchewan/0A89420666875DC7495E656B09143486 https://whenpolicebecomeprey.com/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by WRLO56 (talk • contribs) 05:59, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Tag questioning the neutrality of this article

The basic premise of this page, that police officers in Saskatoon were responsible for the deaths of some members of the First Nations Community by driving them to remote locations and abandoning them in freezing temperatures, is disputed and is contradicted by available forensic evidence. Attempts to mention this or to provide links to sites such as investigative journalist Candis McLean's page https://whenpolicebecomeprey.com/ , are routinely reverted or deleted. Censorship of this nature is clear evidence that the information in the article is heavily biased and selectively edited. WRLO56 (talk) 06:33, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

McLean's book is of dubious validity; please read the guidelines in WP:RS. The term 'murder' has a specific legal meaning which cannot be used here. Claims of 'censorship' against a non-governmental entity never do very well; Wikipedia is not obligated to provide full coverage to every statement from every source. DS (talk) 15:18, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Changed "murdered" to "were responsible for the deaths of some". I fail to see how you conclude that McLean's book is of "dubious validity". McLean is an award-winning investigative journalist who had a regular newspaper column at the age of 16. She holds an MA in English, and won a Canadian Radio and Television News Director’s Award for Outstanding Work in the Documentary Field. A documentary based on the book, When Police Become Prey: What Lies Behind “Starlight Tours”, won an audience favourite award at the 2010 New Hope Film Festival. The book is published, and with the exception of interviews with some witnesses who wished to remain anonymous, I believe everything in it is independently verifiable. How, then, did you conclude that the book is of "dubious validity"?WRLO56 (talk) 06:42, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

It's self-published from a vanity press. "Audience favourite" has no bearing on reliability, and neither does what the author was doing when she was sixteen or what her degree is. If your statements can be independently sourced, then source them properly. If you're not sure whether sources can be used, go to the reliable sources noticeboard. DS (talk) 23:52, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

SPS Censorship of Wikipedia article

When I read that the SPS censored their controversial "Starlight Tours" on the Wikipedia page, I was both stupefied and angered that a professional police agency like them would stoop so low as to remove an entire section of their Wikipedia page just so that people would not know about their disgusting and vile act of freezing people to death.

-Arsenal Pro 1975, December 5, 2021

Section for Consideration

Could a section on the police response to the outrage over the starlight tours be helpful? This could contextualize the general public response and how the Sask police force shifted in response. - Skyef25 September 1, 2022 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skyef25 (talk • contribs) 19:50, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Potential section about police convictions and public response

Following up to my previous comment, I am proposing a new section be added focusing on the public response and indigenous outrage. This can include more updated convictions and police action taken.

There are sources for consideration on my user page User:Skyef25/be bold Skyef25 (talk) 00:23, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

2601:2C6:4E00:EAA0:A14E:3CED:572E:C716 (talk) 03:29, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

You said (here) that the current state of the article is contradicted by the fact that two officers were convicted for their treatment of Darrell Night. However, Night survived, and the officers were convicted for unlawful confinement. This does not contradict the statement that "despite convictions for related offences, no Saskatoon police officer has been convicted specifically for having caused freezing deaths".

Ah, thank you for the clarification Skyef25 23:28, October 3 2022 — Preceding undated comment added 04:28, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Updates are welcome, although please focus on Saskatoon. DS (talk) 18:11, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

New parent article

Hello all, I'm popping back in here to say I plan on making an article focusing on police brutality against Indigenous Canadians more broadly, inspired by Police brutality against Native Americans. The overall structure for it is in my sandbox if you would like to take a look and leave any suggestions on my talk page. Skyef25 (talk) 23:32, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Hey, just wanted to note that the wording around average temperatures is a bit strange, maybe consider adjusting the structure so that it phrase "average temperature" appears before noting the temperature and consider adding in the record low afterwards. I tried editing it but I do not have the patience to sort out the formatting issues on my cell so I decided it was best to leave it alone. Otherwise this is a solid article. StuntedShadow (talk) 03:04, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

And my proofreading stinks. StuntedShadow (talk) 03:04, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

I recommend making a new section, you just replied to an old section B3251 (talk) 19:08, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Overly passive voice in article title?

I know about NPOV, but I’d argue that using such a passive wording is as much taking a side as anything.

Like, could we not call these murders? Or at least killings? Not even saying anything in the title about who committed them, just acknowledging that these weren’t just unexplained generic “deaths” in the title. Dvallin (talk) 01:40, 27 July 2025 (UTC)

Actually, [data expunged] it, I’m going to be bold. Dvallin (talk) 01:42, 27 July 2025 (UTC)

I think the move is sensible and abides by WP:MURDERS. I suppose the "informal" nature of this makes the "capital punishment" description a little wobbly, but the systemic nature of the killings imply that it is, in some way, state-sanctioned. If there is ever an apology by SPS, ideally we can move it to "murders." Ornov Ganguly TALK 11:28, 28 July 2025 (UTC)

"Killings" is dubious here - abandoning somebody outdoors in cold weather is not something that can uncontroversially be described as a homicide.

Note also that WP:DEATHS only applies if there is no WP:COMMONNAME - in this case, there is clearly a common name, which is "starlight tours". I've opened an RM discussion below. 162 etc. (talk) 05:34, 26 February 2026 (UTC)

Leaving someone tied up on the railroad tracks of an oncoming train is also not directly killing them, but I don't think most people would have a problem considering that to be murder if the predictable outcome happens (or attempted murder if it doesn't). —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 08:23, 26 February 2026 (UTC)

The problem is that "murder" is a legal term; please see this essay for some guidelines. Even "killings" in the article name is a bit iffy.

Do I think that abandoning someone outside the city on a brutally cold winter night is tantamount to murder, yes. But I'm not a coroner. DS (talk) 14:35, 26 February 2026 (UTC)

I'd describe these events that lead to deaths as involuntary manslaughter, and using "killings" to refer to such is indeed dubious. 162 etc. (talk) 15:09, 26 February 2026 (UTC)

Problem: to distinguish between "murder" and "involuntary manslaughter", we would need a judge and jury. (Or, as I said, a coroner.) DS (talk) 19:16, 26 February 2026 (UTC)

Well, no. Wikipedia follows what reliable sources say. And as far as I can see, none of the reliable sources cited in this article refer to these incidents as "killings". 162 etc. (talk) 02:31, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

And which reliable sources refer to the deaths as murders, please? Given that it's a term with a specific legal meaning which does not apply? DS (talk) 03:28, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

I've proposed "Starlight tours" as the article title, not "killings" or "murders". See below. 162 etc. (talk) 03:37, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

I support this change, thanks for making it. The old title makes it sound like accidents. IngeniousPachyderm (talk) 16:47, 28 July 2025 (UTC)

Requested move 26 February 2026

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jeffrey34555 (talk) 04:41, 5 March 2026 (UTC)

---

Saskatoon freezing killings → Starlight tours – WP:COMMONNAME. These incidents were known as "starlight tours", and reliable sources refer to them as such. Note that this was the article's stable title up until a 2017 merger. 162 etc. (talk) 05:28, 26 February 2026 (UTC)

• Support per WP:COMMONNAME, as stated above. Nearbi 05:36, 26 February 2026 (UTC)
• Support: One problem with the current title is that there have been no verified killings. At least the current content of the article does not confirm any. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 01:03, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

  I mean,that's why it was originally "deaths". DS (talk) 05:35, 1 March 2026 (UTC)

• Support. WP:COMMONNAME that is widely used in RS. ---- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 20:28, 28 February 2026 (UTC)
• Support: I agree with the WP:COMMONNAME argument for the new title, and also with BarrelProof on the problem with the current title. CASalt (talk) 23:49, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

additional media representation

Have no experience editing wikipedia so offering information in talk instead. The Canadian TV series Tribal season 02 episode 07 "Starlight, Starbright" offers a dramatization of off-duty police transporting an intoxicated First Nations man to reservation land, disabling his truck, abandoning him there, near which he is found dead the next day with cause of death identified as hypothermia. A First Nations woman later in the episode (33'10") declares "Starlight tours are back." ~2026-38560-71 (talk) 04:03, 7 July 2026 (UTC)

I've added it to the article. 162 etc. (talk) 20:05, 7 July 2026 (UTC)

Term origin

I found this source that provides a history of the term. – The Grid (talk) 21:54, 2 August 2026 (UTC)