Talk:Salvador Chuliá Hernández

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. You can locate your hook here.No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Dclemens1971 talk 15:31, 22 September 2025 (UTC)

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• ... that Salvador Chuliá, director of the Conservatorio Municipal "José Iturbi" de Valencia from 1992 to 2014, composed Tríptico elegíaco for a percussionist and orchestra? Source: several
  • Reviewed: Aeneas Valley
  • Comment: open to suggestions

Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 2153 past nominations.

Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:01, 14 August 2025 (UTC).

• Suggesting:

ALT1 ... that Salvador Chuliá Hernández composed over 400 musical works during his career?

ALT2 ... that one of the halls of the Conservatorio de Valencia is named after Salvador Chuliá Hernández, the school's director from 1978 to 2014?

ALT3 ... that conductor Salvador Chuliá Hernández initially studied music under his guitar-making uncle?

Also inviting UndercoverClassicist to suggest possible hooks given their help in the Julia Hagen nomination. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:33, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for thinking about it. ALT1 is talking only about quantity, and doesn't say a word about which genre, nor that he was mostly a teacher and director. ALT2 is possible, but misses music, - I think that "elegiaco" raises more interest than a naming, and percussion with orchestra is unusual. ALT3 is as unspecific as saying that Julia Hagen began at age four, which was rejected not only by me. How do you even think that kind of early life information is interesting? - This person had a quite local but long-lasting impact in teaching and also composing, - why not say so? Back to Julia Hagen: more than 3k were interested in the linked cello maker. I wish that interest had gone to the (living) violinist, orchestra and conductor of a very interesting event. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:28, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

Personally, I don't think ALT0 will pass WP:DYKINT for most people -- unless Tríptico elegíaco were particularly famous and its composer particularly obscure. Like Julia Hagan, we're in the difficult position that the article doesn't give us very much that's outside the norm for a composer. Of the four above I would be most likely to click on ALT0, but honestly even that's a bit borderline. I wonder about "... that all three sons of the composer Salvador Chuliá Hernández became musicians?", but it's likewise scraping a bit. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:32, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

I don't follow, sorry. "eligiaco" = elegiac should raise interest on a broad level, no? (I didn't want to put the memory of his son who died early onto the hook.) "percussion" should be more interesting than some vague "musical works", no? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:05, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

No, I don't agree. I think you need a fairly high level of knowledge in a specific field of music to appreciate why either of those things are unusual, and very few of our readers will have that. To be honest, I still can't see why the word elegiac in the title of a piece makes it interesting -- I wouldn't run a hook "...that Thomas Gray composed Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard", for example. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 10:08, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

(ec) Your ALT is fine to hint at him being a successful teacher, but comes without a leading position for decades, and no hint at being a prolific composer at all, while I believe that the double function makes him more interesting than one alone, and being specific about where and what is more personal and more interesting than some vague "teacher and composer". I believe that few people are at the same time great teachers and great creators, and he was one of the few.

After edit conflict: I believe that the words "elegiac", "percussion" and "orchestra" need no musical expertise whatsoever to raise interest, and the name of the conservatoire needs no knowledge because there's a link (and the name could be shortened). Less precise than ALT0:

ALT4: ... that Salvador Chuliá, director of the Valencia conservatoire from 1992 to 2014, wrote many works for concert band [among his 400 compositions]? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:24, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

Similarly, I don't think many readers will hear a striking dissonance between conservatoire and concert band (is there one?), and so this will read as "did you know that this composer composed music?" UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 10:49, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

I'm at a loss how anybody would connect conservatoire (academy, school) with anything creative. Is that my language? - Concert band is a very specific musical ensemble, DYK? ... not just "music". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:11, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

I would normally assume that the director of a musical academy was a successful musician, just like that the director of a military academy was a soldier, so it doesn't seem surprising that they would write music. Again, I understand that these hooks may be interesting to someone with specific knowledge, but I doubt they will be to the intelligent but uninformed readers at whom DYK is aimed. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 11:15, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

Do you know the difference between a musician and a composer? Do you know another director of an academy who is a prolific composer? (I don't.) I think we should tell readers what they don't know. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:26, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

I think we're in a loop now, but I wouldn't pass that hook for DYKINT, and I'd be surprised if this exchange convinces anyone else to do so. I'll bow out at this point. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 11:31, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

Just a quick question: could you pass ALT2 or - let them find out why -

ALT2a ... that one of the halls of the Conservatorio Municipal "José Iturbi" de Valencia is named after Salvador Chuliá Hernández? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:28, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

No, I don't think I would. If the building or institution itself were fantastically notable -- for instance, if it were the White House -- it would be a different matter, but I don't see that "a room of an institution focused on a thing is named after someone notable for that thing" is unusual or interesting. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 12:33, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

When I came to DYK it was to make known (during 6 hours on the main page) the little new article, by what it contains, - let the readers decide if they find that interesting enough to click or not. (My first DYK, nominated by the one who help me bring the article back from deletion, was about a composer, and I argued about the hook ;) ) Chuliá didn't play in a president's league, and we shouldn't pretend he was. Does that exclude him from DYK? There are not many percussion concertos, but he wrote one, which seems interesting (to me).

ALT0a: ... that Salvador Chuliá, director of the Valencia conservatoire from 1992 to 2014, wrote 400 compositions including a piece for percussion and orchestra? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:54, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

New idea: I could write about the composition, and then link to it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:56, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

To quote a late and great DYK contributor, "too much is being packed into the hook to qualify it as remotely hooky. Can you give it a trim please?" If you can't Gerda Arendt, I'll mark it for rejection. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:20, 29 August 2025 (UTC)

I can. We'll just miss things that are more interesting when together. A conservatory director who writes 400 compositions is rare, and I tried to incorporate the gift of ALT1, which in itself is meaningless (to me). If we only speak about compositions, we ignore that his greatest accomplishment was teaching. If you need something short, you can take ALT2a.

ALT0b: ... that Salvador Chuliá, director of the Valencia conservatoire from 1992 to 2014, composed Tríptico elegíaco for a percussionist and orchestra?

ALT0c: ... that Salvador Chuliá composed a lament for a percussionist and orchestra? You can play with the building blocks. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:37, 29 August 2025 (UTC)

As much as you really want to highlight Tríptico elegíaco, neither proposal works as neither make it clear exacly how and why Tríptico elegíaco is any more unusual over the many other compositions made for both orchestra and percussion. UndercoverClassicist's advice that the hook will read as "composer composed song" is correct, and any context or background you want to share will be lost in what you are trying to say. Given that you said you would rather have no hook than to go with an alternative option, it may be for the best to just let this one go and withdraw. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:37, 30 August 2025 (UTC)

I want to say something about his accomplishments, in a factual way. You told me to find something personal, that is tabloid territory for me. I don't think that you and I mean the same thing when we say "song". I don't think we mean the same same thing when we say percussion concerto, a rather rare thing. I didn't write his article, so am less passionate than for articles I put much energy in, or a performer I experienced myself, but I still believe he deserves credit for something singular he gave the world. Do you know what elegy and lament mean? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:09, 31 August 2025 (UTC)

I will not be participating in this nomination further as this discussion appears to be going nowhere, but to answer your question: yes, I do know what elegies and laments are. That does not mean I find the fact he wrote either interesting, nor does it change the fact that the proposals fail to show how his elegy and lament are any more special or unusual than those made by others. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:35, 31 August 2025 (UTC)

I think that laments are rarely written for percussion, and it would be quirky if not about the death of his son. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:41, 31 August 2025 (UTC)

That gives me an idea:

• ALT5 ... that Spanish conductor Salvador Chuliá Hernández composed the lament Tríptico elegíaco in memory of his son?
• ALT5a ... that Spanish conductor Salvador Chuliá Hernández composed the lament Tríptico elegíaco following his son's death in a car accident?
• ALT5b ... that Spanish conductor Salvador Chuliá Hernández composed the lament Tríptico elegíaco for percussion and orchestra following his son's death in a car accident?
• ALT5c ... that after his son was killed in a car accident, Salvador Chuliá Hernández composed the lament Tríptico elegíaco for percussion and orchestra?

I think the fact about laments being rarely written for percussion will be lost among most readers (UndercoverClassicist's advice that the percussion-lament relationship is a "fairly high level of knowledge in a specific field of music" is correct and thus that fact by itself is not DYKINT compliant). However, him writing a lament in memory of his son is more likely to attract readership, even if they do not have same technical knowledge that you have.

I understand that you did not want to highlight his son's death, but this is perhaps the only angle involving Tríptico elegíaco that would likely get approval from other reviewers. Otherwise, if as you said you would rather have no hook rather than highlighting something you do not want, you can always withdraw the nomination. In any case, I will not be participating here any further, I just wanted to get this idea out for the benefit of other editors who would take a look at this. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 05:19, 1 September 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for thinking further. I didn't want to mention the reason, but can live with it. Some problems, though. 1) It's not mentioned in his article, only in the composition, again intentionally. I tried to make the composition itself fit for DYK, but found no details, no review yet. 2) I read "traffic accident", not "car accident", and have to rely on translation. 3) I would like to see percussion mentioned, because it's not only part of the full title but relates to the career of the young man. 4) He was much less of a conductor than professor and almost creator of that academy. 5) I don't believe much that nationality plays a role in creating interest, and the name sounds Spanish enough. 6) He is commonly known without the maternal name, especially as a composer. 7) lament seems redundant to elegiac, especially when the reason is given. My version (which is supported by the article as it is):

ALT5d ... that Salvador Chuliá composed Tríptico elegíaco for percussion and orchestra in memory of his son? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:56, 1 September 2025 (UTC)

New reviewer needed. Having come in as a neutral broker, I think I'm now too involved to have a detached opinion, so best if a fresh reviewer picks this up. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 06:21, 1 September 2025 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited:
• Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Elements from many ALT5s work well together, but not in any order currently presented. The biggest problem is that the current articles misunderstand the title of the work in question: it is "Tríptico elegíaco para un percusionista"—Elegiac triptych for a percussionist, then performed by an orchestra. There are other problems too with e.g. ALT5d: we omit the necessary "lament" to make complete sense of the work. I do however like the trimming of "Spanish conductor" and of the matrilineal surname. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:24, 1 September 2025 (UTC) ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:24, 1 September 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for the review! I think you misunderstood the title. Elegiac triptych for a percussionist means the dedication to "a percussionist", not the scoring. It was from the start meant to be played by percussion and orchestra, which gives it weight. Triptych means that it it's in three movements, which adds more weight. The word lament is not in the article, - it was introduced to offer a piped link as perhaps better known than "elegiac", but if we have "elegíaco" and "in memory" I don't think we need "lament" also, - original research: the father may even have written the piece (a year after the accident) to overcome lamenting. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:54, 1 September 2025 (UTC)

"Elegiac triptych for a percussionist means the dedication to "a percussionist", not the scoring." do you have a citation for that Gerda Arendt? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:33, 1 September 2025 (UTC)

I wonder what makes you think anything else. Preniered by the National Youth Orchestra. - I added some bits that Vicente Chuliá wrote about his brother and the father composing, also a 2006 Valencia recording (orchestra). We may get in 1500 chars territory, - how do I check that? I used to have a function installed that came up unter tools but no more. I know that YouTube is no reliable source, but if a Youtube conducted by Vicente comes with the line "Tríptico Elegiaco para un percusionista", obra para orquesta sinfónica dedicada in memoriam a Salvador Antonio Chuliá Ramiro, quien fallece en un accidente de coche a la edad de 17 años." - it may tell us that it an orchestral piece. The longer I look, the more I tend to think that "for orchestra" is better. Will change. I wonder if it should be moved to the full title but that is so long? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:33, 1 September 2025 (UTC)

Update: I added a sentence about the piece and its dedication to the composer's article. Please consider that there was more detail about his sons, which was removed by an IP, possibly a family member. I think we should make this as unsensational as possible. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:28, 1 September 2025 (UTC)

ALT5e ... that Salvador Chuliá composed Tríptico elegíaco para un percusionista for orchestra in memory of his son?

ALT5f ... that Salvador Chuliá composed Tríptico elegíaco para un percusionista for orchestra in memory of his son, a percussionist who had died at age 17? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:48, 1 September 2025 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: Per DYKcheck, Triptico... is eligible at 1810 characters and is about eight days old. All it really needs is a QPQ. (I happen to have a music nom near the top of TM:TDYK if you're interested.)--Launchballer 10:56, 5 September 2025 (UTC)

I reviewed Template:Did you know nominations/Blythe Pepino, thank you. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:06, 5 September 2025 (UTC)

I boldly moved the article and will review it now. Long enough, new enough. QPQ is fine and I'll get on to it shortly. Earwig is clean. I wouldn't be able to tick off any ALT5f derivative with 'a percussionist who had died at age 17' as it isn't in either article and I'd probably trim it anyway. I note @AirshipJungleman29:'s preference that the hook contains the phrase 'the lament', but I don't see it in either article. If you're alright with the following ALT5e derivative: ALT6: ... that Salvador Chuliá composed Tríptico elegíaco para un percusionista for orchestra in memory of his son? (which really is bits of other hooks), I'm approving this.--Launchballer 15:30, 5 September 2025 (UTC)

thank you --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:52, 5 September 2025 (UTC)