Talk:Na'im

Naim, Nuyaim or other naimes

A source would be required to link the Emirati Na'im and the Al Bu Kharaiban in specific with any tribe in Syria or elsewhere with a similar name. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 09:12, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

@Alexandermcnabb: Clearly, there's a misunderstanding here, either about the content or the purpose of the hatnote. If you look again, there is no claim being made in the hatnote which links the Na'im of the UAE with the Na'im of Syria (although both tribes seem to show, IMO, a fabricated tribal affinity with each other; many Na'im emigrants thus live in the northern UAE emirates and the Ajman sheikhs have paid honorary/solidarity visits to the Na'im sheikhs in Syria), so this point is moot and irrelevant to the justification for the hatnote. The tribe in Syria is commonly referred to as the Na'im and the article I created on them may very well be moved to "Na'im (Syria)" and this article moved to "Na'im (UAE)" or thereabout since in that case neither would be significantly more notable than the other to satisfy our 'primary topic' policy. Adding the hatnote is a bare minimum approach to ensure readers searching Na'im on a search engine for the tribe in Syria will have a link to it when they arrive at this page instead. I am still gathering sources to determine which transliteration for the Syrian tribe is more common (Na'im, Nu'im, Nu'aym, etc) before I move that article, but until then, the hatnote obviously stays. I will assume this was a misunderstanding and you will self-revert.

From a cursory google search, here are a few sources that use the 'Na'im' transliteration for the tribe in Syria, one of the country's largest: , , , , Al Ameer (talk) 14:04, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Lorimer and descent

I'm not sure how much value there is in discussion of 'descent' for what is a complex tribe with many subsections, alliances and - now - geographical spread (mostly in the UAE and Oman, but also in Bahrain and Qatar, with some also living in Dammam/Dahran following the Buraimi dispute). Lorimer, in his Gazetteer, says, "The Al Bu Kharabain are said to be descended from a common ancestor called Khazraj and the Al Bu Shamis from one 'Aus." For a start, 'said to be...' is hardly the strongest of claims and conflating that with WP:OR to derive a common descent for the whole tribal group is hardly helpful, IMHO. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 05:56, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

Hi, the Naim tribe is not an alliance such as the Dhawahir or Bani Yas or Manasir, and even if it was an alliance, the main component of the tribe descends from the companion Na’iman bin Amr al-Ansari, which is the origin of the name, and this is according to their poems and their heritage. In addition to Lorimer’s source about the descent of al-Na’im from the Ansar, I will suffice with these Arabic sources.

الموسوعة الذهبية في أنساب قبائل وأسر شبه الجزيرة العربية، الجزء الثامن، الصفحة 32، تأليف إ.ج.ا.ب.د. الشريفي، :

آل نعيم ، وأحدهم نعيمي ، من قبائل سلطنة عُمان ودولة الإمارت العربية المتحدة وهم من الأزد ، من بني أوس والخزرج إبنا حارثة بن ثعلبة بن عمرو مزيقياء بن عامر ماء السماء بن حارثة الغطريف بن امرؤ القيس البطريق بن ثعلبة البهلول بن مازن الزاد بن درء وهو الأزد بن الغوث بن نبت بن مالك بن زيد بن كهلان بن عامر وهو...

The Golden Encyclopedia of the Genealogies of the Tribes and Families of the Arabian Peninsula, Part Eight, Page 32, Written by I.J.A.B.D. Al-Sharifi, 1998:

Al Naim, one of whom is Naimi, are from the tribes of the Sultanate of Oman and the United Arab Emirates. They are from Azd, from Bani Aws and Khazraj, the sons of Haritha bin Tha’laba bin Amr Muzayqiya bin Amer Ma’ al-Sama’ bin Haritha al-Ghatrif bin Imru’ al-Qais al-Batrik bin Tha’laba al-Bahlol bin Mazen al-Zad bin Dar’, who is Azd bin al-Ghauth bin Nabt bin Malik bin Zaid bin Kahlan bin Amer, who is...

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تاريخ قبائل الأنصار في سائر البلدان والأقطار (الأوس والخزرج)، د. یاسر حمید حامد آل عبد الوهاب، ISBN:9775255449 الخزرجي الأنصاري، ص١٤١

قبيلة النعيم والشوامس لهم انتشار كبير في الخليج العربي وخاصة في عمان والإمارت قطر والبحرين والسعودية فمركزهم التاريخي والمعروف محافظة البريمي وضنك التابعة لدولة عمان فقبيلة النعيم تسكن البريمي منطقة حفيت وعدة مناطق في البريمي وضنك في منطقة العلاية وغيرها، وكذلك في دولة الإمارات في إمارة عجمان وهم حكامها وكذلك مدينة العين التابعة لإمارة أبوظبي وفي إمارة الشارقة، وبنو نعيم سطرت الكتب لهم صفحات من ذهب نذكر بعض الشيء تطبيق المثل الذى لا يدرك كله لا يترك جله وتسيطرت قبيلة النعيم على مناطق البريمي وماحولها وتوابعها وهم أهل الزعامة والسيف والريادة.

وأما قبيلة الشوامس أصحاب العدد والعدة يسكنون محافظة البريمي في عدة مناطق مثل حماسة - واسط - الفياض - السنينة) وكذلك شرقية عمان وبدولة الإمارات في أبو ظبي بمدينة العين ومنطقة زاخر والختم وكذلك في إمارة الشارقة في الحمرية.

ترجع القبيلتان إلى قبائل الأزد، وعرفة هذه القبيلة بالشهامة والشجاعة كقبائل العرب.

ذكر الؤرخ السيابي في كتابه : (العنوان عن تاريخ عمان - ص ۱۸٦ - تأليف / المؤرخ سالم السيابي) مانصه

اعلم أن النعيم وآل بوشامس قبيلة واحدة الآن) انتهى.

يقول في نفس المصدر :(المصدر السابق) مانصه

قبيلة النعيم والشوامس هم قوم من الأنصار جاءوا عمان في من جاء من العرب أيام فتحها ونزلوا بأرض الجو) انتهى.

History of the Ansar tribes in all countries and regions (the Aws and Khazraj), Dr. Yasir Hamid Hamid Al Abdul Wahhab Al Khazraji Al Ansari, p. 141, ISBN: 9775255449

The Al-Naim and Al-Shawamis tribes have a large presence in the Arabian Gulf, especially in Oman, the Emirates, Qatar, Bahrain and Saudi Arabia. Their historical and well-known center is the Al-Buraimi Governorate and Dhank, which is affiliated with the State of Oman. The Al-Naim tribe inhabits the Al-Buraimi area, the Hafeet area and several areas in Al-Buraimi and Dhank in the Al-Ulayah area and others, as well as in the United Arab Emirates in the Emirate of Ajman, and they are its rulers, as well as the city of Al-Ain, which is affiliated with the Emirate of Abu Dhabi, and in the Emirate of Sharjah. Books have written pages of gold for the Banu Naim. We will mention some of the application of the proverb that if you cannot achieve everything, do not leave most of it. The Al-Naim tribe controlled the areas of Al-Buraimi and its surroundings and its dependencies. They are the people of leadership, sword and pioneering.

As for the Al-Shawamis tribe, the owners of numbers and equipment, they inhabit the Al-Buraimi Governorate in several areas such as Hamasa - Wasit - Al-Fayyadh - Al-Sunaina) as well as eastern Oman and in the United Arab Emirates in Abu Dhabi in the city of Al-Ain and the Zakher and Al-Khatm areas, as well as in the Emirate of Sharjah in Al-Hamriyah.

The two tribes go back to the Azd tribes, and this tribe was known for its chivalry and bravery like the Arab tribes.

The historian Al-Siyabi mentioned in his book: (The Title of the History of Oman - p. 186 - Written by / Historian Salem Al-Siyabi) the following:

Know that Al-Naim and Al-Bu Shams are one tribe now) End.

He says in the same source: (Previous source) the following:

The Al-Naim and Al-Shawamis tribes are a people from the Ansar who came to Oman with those who came from the Arabs during the days of its conquest and settled in the land of Al-Jaw) End. Shrev (talk) 10:43, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

All of which is almost entirely irrelevant to the information added to the article which is not backed up by the source cited. Information such as "the sons of Haritha bin Tha’laba bin Amr Muzayqiya bin Amer Ma’ al-Sama’ bin Haritha al-Ghatrif bin Imru’ al-Qais al-Batrik bin Tha’laba al-Bahlol bin Mazen al-Zad bin Dar" is hardly appropriate to enwiki and I'd argue it's an WP:UNDUE degree of detail for arwiki, too. Let's also remember WP:NOTGENEALOGY Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 12:50, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

Definite article according to MOS

Hello @Alexandermcnabb.

Regarding this revert:

I'm not sure what you mean by your edit summary. Whatever your intention, the MOS section which I linked to in the edit summary clearly states the following:

"Al-" and its variants (ash-, ad-, ar-, etc.) are always written in lower case, also when forming part of proper nouns, except when beginning a sentence. It is always separated from the following word (which takes the upper case when it is a proper noun) by a hyphen.

If you want to further explain your thoughts on "modern usage context", I'll be happy to hear you out, as I am interested in this sort of things, but either way, please self-revert this revert, as the MOS is clear about the matter.

Thanks and good tidings, غوّاص العلم (Ghawwas) (talk) 09:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC)

Hiya. If I have to be brutally honest, I have bigger things in my life to worry about right now, so please revert away as you like. The MOS is totally incorrect on this, but I for one will not be trying to raise a request for consensus or any other dialogue around that because I have bigger things in my life to worry about. It's archaic and punctilious to introduce Arabic transliteration that is simply not used in contemporary place names, road signs etc. Per my user page: "Now let's add some spice. Ar Rufaysah, al-Rufaisa and An-Rufaisah are the same place. I always choose 'Al' as a prefix if it's the known form - for instance, Umm Al Nar rather than Umm an-Nar, simply because that's easier for Latin alphabet users to use, understand and - more importantly, search. But Al Bithnah Fort should really, really be Bithnah Fort. FWIW, al is the definite article (which itself causes awful issues with Arabic translation), so it really means The Bithnah Fort. When English speakers translate Al Hosn Fort as 'the Al Hosn Fort', we're really saying 'the The Hosn Fort'... The same is true of names, so Mohammed Al Sharhan is 'Mohammed The Sharhan'. It gets complicated quite quickly..."

In the modern UAE, for instance, it's Al Nuami all the way. Nobody uses al-Nuaimi anymore. Just Google it - the results speak for themselves. And when the Ajman government website refers to the ruler of Ajman (the head of the Na'im tribe) as Al Nuaimi, I reckon that, rather than the MOS, is sovereign... The MOS needs to change to reflect the new reality - but I am not the agent of that process. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 16:34, 12 April 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for the detailed reply, I appreciate it. Looking at your user page, I quite enjoyed your montage of road signs, and share your bemusement, though perhaps my younger years also make my frustration more apparent, if not also more present to begin with.

I won't revert it back, since I don't feel strongly about this family or the UAE, and you seem to have a fairly strong grip on the matter of current use.

I've mostly started doing this due to concerns of consistency. For important families in Qatar, like that of Moza bint Nasser, for example, I find it troubling that at times it is "Al-Missned", at times "Al Misnad", and yet more variations of course, when it is the very same family, often close family, as in this case. I also really dislike the identical transliteration of آل ("family of", as I'm sure you know (adding in case others happen to read this)) and the definite article ال, which in my mind is a good argument for both the hyphen and the lowercase.

While I agree with much of your words in your user page and here, I think that in more Qatar focused articles I will continue to try and standardize what I run into, but I will keep this in mind.

Glad to run into you! If you ever have some tips or advice for me going forward, especially on subjects to do with Qatar, please feel free to let me know, I always appreciate it.

Thanks and good tidings, غوّاص العلم (Ghawwas) (talk) 06:57, 15 April 2026 (UTC)