Talk:Merchants of death
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Most of this page appears to be directly taken from here: http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/minute/merchants_of_death.htm
Removed "The senate is just a giant meeting where people scream at each other and at times cane each other" from header Senate Hearings. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mikess314 (talk • contribs) 16:34, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
Also
[edit]The phrase was also applied to private arms dealers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.26.1.224 (talk) 16:08, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
Pejorative
[edit]@Gjb0zWxOb I see the lead has been changed to remove the word "pejorative" and replace it with a link to Critic without citing any new sources. What supports this change? Have you read the cited source? It's pretty clear that this is a derogatory term. I can cite additional sources backing this up. Have you found a body of work showing that the neutral description is critic? Uhoj (talk) 16:52, 30 July 2025 (UTC)
- Yes, the sources I was looking at when making the revision said that this was a term of "criticism" and/or that "critics" used the term when discussing the arms industry. I have included some of the sources that I saw that used the "critical/critic/criticism" language on the page and will include them here as well. Gjb0zWxOb (talk) 17:59, 30 July 2025 (UTC)
- The first[1] is an opinion piece advocating the merchants of death theory. A primary source in other words. The second[2] provides no information about the valence. The third[3] is a news report on a polemic. None of these sources individually or together outweigh the scholarly works that directly address the connotations and report them to be derogatory. Our job is to explain what the term means; not advocate the POV of those who use it. Uhoj (talk) 19:13, 30 July 2025 (UTC)
- Other scholarly sources (besides the one source used in the lead evidently) also say it is a term of criticism/critical term of those who are critical of the arms industry or the military industrial complex. In fact, here is a scholarly article called, "Historical Antecedents of Military-Industrial Criticism" which lists the Merchants of Death as a term of criticism used in the 1930s before Military Industrial Complex became a mainstream term. This source is also already listed on the page, right below the source you mention. Here is another scholarly article saying that it is a term of criticism associated with the military industrial complex and here is another source that does that. Gjb0zWxOb (talk) 15:18, 31 July 2025 (UTC)
- @Gjb0zWxOb I briefly looked at the 3 new links you posted, and am not seeing anything to refute that the term is a pejorative. If I missed something particular please point it out.
- Criticism can be voiced using pejoratives. These are far from being mutually exclusive. I've added a new section on usage to flesh out the derogatory connotation. Uhoj (talk) 02:19, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
- Other scholarly sources (besides the one source used in the lead evidently) also say it is a term of criticism/critical term of those who are critical of the arms industry or the military industrial complex. In fact, here is a scholarly article called, "Historical Antecedents of Military-Industrial Criticism" which lists the Merchants of Death as a term of criticism used in the 1930s before Military Industrial Complex became a mainstream term. This source is also already listed on the page, right below the source you mention. Here is another scholarly article saying that it is a term of criticism associated with the military industrial complex and here is another source that does that. Gjb0zWxOb (talk) 15:18, 31 July 2025 (UTC)
- The first[1] is an opinion piece advocating the merchants of death theory. A primary source in other words. The second[2] provides no information about the valence. The third[3] is a news report on a polemic. None of these sources individually or together outweigh the scholarly works that directly address the connotations and report them to be derogatory. Our job is to explain what the term means; not advocate the POV of those who use it. Uhoj (talk) 19:13, 30 July 2025 (UTC)
References
- ↑ "The 'Merchants of Death' Survive and Prosper | Lawrence Wittner". Bainbridge Island Review. 2018-01-02. Retrieved 2025-07-30.
- ↑ "Merchants of Death, by H. C. Engelbrecht and F. C. Hanighen, 1934 | U.S. Capitol - Visitor Center". www.visitthecapitol.gov. Retrieved 2025-07-30.
- ↑ "Pope: Arms manufacturers are duplicitous, 'merchants of death'". MSNBC.com. 2015-06-22. Retrieved 2025-07-30.