Talk:Jewish Christianity

Keeping the Article secular and unbiased towards Any religious group

When it is written "Christianity started with Jewish eschatological expectations, and it developed into the worship of Jesus as the result of his earthly ministry in Galilee and Jerusalem, his crucifixion, and the post-resurrection experiences of his followers." It implies that the historical figure Jesus was resurrected when that is only the Christian belief and Jews and science-minded atheists Very much disagree on what happened to Jesus after the Romans crucified him, and Muslims believe that he never died or was resurrected and instead ascended to haven while alive, and so inorder to keep to community guidelines and remain religiously neutral the verbiage in question should be changed to 'post-crucifixion experiences of his followers' Thank you and some time will be given for anyone to object to this correction to keep the article in adherence to community guidelines and not espousing any one religion's beliefs that the physical laws of the universe were broken and a miracle occurred post-crucifixion. I think that the proposed change is both fair and factual to all parties recounting of that time period, and it does not negate in any way the religious stories of Christianity, or any other religion because it remains factual given the presumption of the Christian religious stories that Jesus was resurrected post-crucifixion, and therefor every post-resurrection experience of his followers by definition is also a post-crucifixion experience. Thank you for your time, and please write any objections below, if no objections are received in a reasonably timely manner I will go ahead and make the proposed change, and if at a later date objections arise the article can always be reverted to how it is now and the matter discussed here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ~2025-37634-94 (talk) 23:47, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

Post-resurrection does not assume there was a resurrection. I.e. some guys pretended to see the resurrected Jesus. That's all that means. tgeorgescu (talk) 00:31, 1 December 2025 (UTC)

Citations failing verification

When checking a small sample of the citations on this page, there were a surprisingly high number of failed verifications. I have marked some, replaced some, and silently ignored others when I don't have the exact cited edition before me to ensure the citation is really wrong. In any case, I would take all the citations in this article with a grain of salt. Some of the editors in its history must have been careless. Daask (talk) 21:56, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Jewish Christians

I read in this article in the beginning:

"These Jews believed that Jesus was the prophesied Messiah and they continued their adherence to Jewish law."

It is the better to change the words "these Jews" to "Jews believed in Christ".

2. After the words "Jewish law" it is good to write: (Torah). Vladislav1968 Ukraine (talk) 21:14, 8 August 2025 (UTC)

To illustrate one of the several issues with your recent edits, you clearly missed the basic concept being referred to (and linked) by "Jewish law" there, i.e. Halakha, not merely the vague and inaccurate "Torah". Remsense 🌈 论 09:23, 9 August 2025 (UTC)

@Remsense: What do you mean by "vague and inaccurate "Torah"", can you please elaborate further? Also @Vladislav1968 Ukraine: simply embedding Torah is more clear, for Jewish Law is the Torah (in relation to this discussion). And lastly, I think it is more appropriate to signify those "Jews" as being heretical detractors [which factually they were], so the statement would be "These heretical Jews believed that Jesus was prophesied Messiah", do note, I removed "they continued their adherence to Jewish law", for they were violating the Law by worshiping an idol, which is against the Torah, this is to remain absolutely factual. Lothengrun de Spigel (talk) 19:03, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

A Question

Isn't the whole premise of this article an oxymoron? Jews can't be legally considered as Christians, if they were, they would be considered as heretics, whereas Christianity itself is inherently against Judaism (worship of a physical idol). I would appreciate an explanation if possible. [*Note the question has been explained outside of this talk page] Lothengrun de Spigel (talk) 15:08, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

Sanhedrin heretical expansion of article sources

Here are a few sources that may be helpful though there is nuance here. Johnson 2016 discusses on p.16 how the Jews looked on the new faith as a dangerous heresy, Sanhedrin sentenced early blasphemer / Christian martyr to death by stoning, and that James brother of Jesus was executed by high preist. Lupovitch 2009 p. 44 discusses that the Sanhedrin convicted Jesus for heresy. Luomanen 2005 discusses the varying views how early Christian heretics were viewed as Nazarenes or Ebionites. Andre🚐 21:39, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

Thanks. As you say, 'nuance', and 'varying views'. And as such, regardless of MOS:LEDE, which rules out only mentioning this in the lede, it clearly needs more than a single-sentence statement. The topic covers several centuries, and accordingly we shouldn't be basing it all around the conviction of Jesus (or rather, the conviction of Jesus as later reported?). Maybe someone could draft an article section on the topic, to give us something to discuss? AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:47, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

I agree, it shouldn't be glossed over, and it needs to be expanded in the body first (cough @Lothengrun de Spigel), but I do think broadly the idea that Jewish authorities generally viewed early Christianity as a heretical sect rings true. E.g. Much of the important evidence for such Jewish-Christian groups derives from the writings of various anti-heretical writers of the second to fourth centuries, who record important information about the beliefs and practices of the members of these groups, and preserve extracts from their gospels (i.e. the so-called gospels of the Ebionites, of the Nazarenes, and according to the Hebrews). Andre🚐 21:56, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

I note though that the article section 'Split of early Christianity and Judaism' discusses this already, to some extent. Possibly we need material added there? As it stands, it certainly doesn't support any simplistic assertions regarding 'heresy'. They are hardly compatible with e.g. statements that 'Jewish Christians continued to worship in synagogues together with fellow Jews for centuries'. AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:00, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

It is certainly the case that early Jewish Christians still worshipped in synagogues. "Together with fellow Jews" might be the tricky part. Together in the sense that all the different sects went to synagogue, yes. Did they go to the same synagogue in all cases? I do not think so. I think if you were a Nazarene or an Ebionite you did Judaism largely with the rest of your sect. You probably knew which synagogue was more friendly to your sect. Once they had their own synagogues which eventually were probably churches. But looking at the source for that sentence, end of p. 112 talks about how schisms or expelling did happen, p.113 of Berard 2006 says that Jews continued to pray in synagogues with other Jews,as well as in those they themselves had founded as Jews (emphasis mine). The other cites are tagged failed verification, and indeed I don't see that on p.164 of Wright 1992. I am not sure about Wylen, the preview seems not to have page numbers, and from a scan for material on synagogues I only see that Christians were prohibited from visiting them in 380. "Jewish Christians continued to worship in synagogues" appears twice in the Wikipedia article, without the "together with fellow Jews" the 2nd time. Andre🚐 22:27, 30 April 2026 (UTC)