Talk:Indus Hospital and Health Network
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Untitled
[edit]This article needs more references and needs to be rewritten. It currently reads like a public relations piece. Bill Pollard (talk) 01:50, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
Page Rename
[edit] | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
- What I think should be changed (include citations): Page Name
- Why it should be changed: Indus Hospital & Health Network (because this is a new and official name I'm attaching an official website link that logo & that web article shows the actual name: https://indushospital.org.pk/news/broadening-our-horizon-with-indus-hospital-and-health-network/)
Requested edit
[edit] | Part of an edit requested by an editor with a conflict of interest has been implemented. [see below] |
Dear Editor,
I just want to inform you that I'm working in Indus Hospital & Health Network. I'm noticing, the content of this page is old, not updated, and less information, so I've written down newly updated content with references and citations for e.g which has given below.
In infobox need to change the logo and front view of the hospital image: (Content has given below)
| Indus Hospital & Health Network | |
|---|---|
| File:LOGO IHHN.jpg | |
| File:Indus Hospital and Health Network.jpg Front view of The Indus Hospital, Korangi Campus | |
| Geography | |
| Location | Korangi Crossing, Karachi, Karachi, Sindh, Pakistan |
| Organisation | |
| Care system | Private |
| Services | |
| Yes | |
| History | |
| Founded | 2007 |
| Links | |
| Website | www |
| Lists | Hospitals in Pakistan |
unsuccessful part of the request |
|---|
|
The introduction section should be updated with this content: (Content has given below) The Indus Hospital & Health Network (IHHN) is a non-profit organization with multidisciplinary hospitals spread across Pakistan. The Network is made up of 12 hospitals spread across Sindh and Punjab; four Physical Rehabilitation Centers; four Regional Blood Centers; one of the largest Pediatric Oncology Unit; Primary Care Centers; and a large number of public health initiatives across Pakistan. The Network is continuously expanding in remote areas of Pakistan to reach even more people. The History section should be updated with this content: (Content has given below) The founder of The Indus Hospital (TIH), Dr. Abdul Bari Khan along with the co-founders served in the public sector hospitals for many years [1]. The idea of a ‘free public hospital’ was conceived after the 1987 Saddar blast at the crowded Bohri Bazaar which killed over 200 people and injured thousands more. The blast killed over 200 people wounded hundreds more [2], flooding the emergency ward of Civil Hospital, Karachi, and exhausting its capacity. It was at this time, Dr. Bari envisioned the creation of a multi-disciplinary tertiary care hospital that would serve the population of Karachi for free. The mission began with fundraising, and in 2007 with the assistance of local philanthropists, Dr. Bari and his friends finally raised enough money to establish the 150-bed The Indus Hospital in a building in Korangi. With a mandate to provide Pakistan’s first paperless and cashless hospital [3], in 2017 evolved into the Indus Hospital & Health Network (IHHN) [4] with hospitals, clinics, and public health outreach programs spread all across Pakistan. After the Korangi Campus, Sheikh Saeed Memorial Campus and Al-Fakir Trust Campus in PIB Colony joined in. PIB campus exclusively offers dialysis services while the Sheikh Saeed Memorial Campus provides maternal and neonatal services. Later the Al-Ghazi Trust Campus in Bhong, Rahimyar Khan was also brought under the umbrella. The Hospital has owned and managed some hospitals, here is the list: (Content has given below) IHHN-owned hospitals[edit]• The Indus Hospital, Korangi Campus, Karachi • The Indus Hospital, Sheikh Saeed Memorial Campus, Korangi, Karachi • The Indus Hospital, Al Fakir Trust Campus, PIB Colony, Karachi • The Indus Hospital, Al-Ghazi Trust Campus, Bhong, Rahimyar Khan IHHN-managed hospitals[edit]• District Headquarter Hospital, Badin • Multan Institute of Kidney Diseases, Multan • Recep Tayyip Erdogan Hospital, Muzaffargarh • Tehsil Headquarter Hospital Bedian Road, Lahore • Tehsil Headquarter Hospital Manawan, Lahore • Tehsil Headquarter Hospital Raiwind, Lahore • Tehsil Headquarter Hospital Sabzazar, Lahore • Tehsil Headquarter Hospital, Kahna Nau, Lahore Board members and Directors have been changed, here is the list: (Content has given below) Board of Directors[edit]The Board of Directors of the Indus Hospital & Health Network is made up of 10 individuals. The board members, along with the chairman are appointed for three years, except for the chief executive officer. • Dr. Abdul Bari Khan – Chief Executive Officer • Abdul Karim Paracha – Chairman, Board of Directors • Dr. Amber Rashid – Member of the Board • Mian Muhammad Ahsan – Member of the Board • Anwaar Ahmad Khan – Member of the Board • Shaikh Mohammad Pervez – Member of the Board • Muhammad Yahya Chawla – Member of the Board • Khalid Khanani – Member of the Board • Adnan Asdar Ali – Member of the Board • Nasim Hyder – Member of the Board Heads of Directorates[edit]• Dr. Syed Zafar Zaidi — Senior Executive Director — Academics and Projects Directorate • Dr. Akhtar Aziz Khan — Executive Director — Anesthesiology • Dr. Muhammad Amin Chinoy — Executive Director — Physical and Rehabilitation Directorate • Dr. Muhammad Shamvil Ashraf — Executive Director — Medical Services Directorate • Syed Shahab Akhtar — Executive Director — Projects and Facilities Directorate • Mashhood Rizvi — Executive Director — Communications and Resource Development Directorate • Pervaiz Ahmed — Executive Director — Global Resource Development Directorate • Dr. Wasif Shahzad — Executive Director, Operations & Chief Operating Officer — Operations Directorate • Shakeel Akhtar — Chief Information Officer • Saira Khowaja — Executive Director — Global Health Directorate • Adnan Farooq Syed –– Executive Director –– Finance Hospital services need to change with this updated information: (Content has given below) Services[edit]• Surgery & Allied Services • Pediatric Services • Medicine & Allied Services • Blood Center & Laboratory Services The Blood Center in Karachi was inaugurated in October 2013 with a vision to provide the safest possible blood. Currently, the Indus Hospital & Health Network is providing Blood Banking Services at the following sites as requested by the governments of Punjab and Sindh. In Multan
In Bahawalpur
In Sindh
==== Physical Rehabilitation Center ==== (Content has given below) The Physical Rehabilitation Center was established in 2015 with the support of the International Committee of the Red Cross and CHAL Foundation at the Korangi Campus in Karachi. To meet the growing needs The Indus Hospital expanded its Center’s services to Bedian Road Hospital in Lahore, Recep Tayyip Erdogan Hospital in Muzaffargarh, and Civil Hospital, Badin [5]. All four centers now provide modern rehabilitation services to people with disabilities. These include prosthetics, orthotics, physiotherapy, and mobility devices like wheelchairs and crutches. ==== Outreach Programs ==== (Content has given below) The public health outreach programs are managed by Global Health Directorate (GHD) — the public health arm of IHHN — implementing community and facility-based programs across the country. These programs focus on infectious diseases, Maternal and Neonatal Child Health, non-communicable diseases, global surgery, mental health, and primary care programs across all campuses and in communities. GHD’s scope of service includes implementation at scale of public health programs and comprehensive primary care facilities across the country. Some of the public health programs under GHD are: • Malaria Program • HIV Program • Safe Circumcision Program • Diabetes Management Program • Family Planning Program Hospital has started working to making University and colleges, so need to update this information: (Content has given below) Academics[edit]Indus University of Health Sciences Indus University of Health Sciences was chartered in 2015 by the Government of Sindh. The University is composed of seven colleges — of which the College of Nursing and Midwifery, College of Medical Technology and Allied Health, and College of Physical Therapy and Rehabilitation are functional. Rest of the colleges will also be functional soon. • Indus College of Nursing and Midwifery • Indus Medical College • Indus College of Public Health • Indus College of Medical Technology and Allied Health • Indus College of Physical Therapy and Rehabilitation • Indus College of Dentistry • Indus College of Pharmacy Postgraduate Medical Education The Postgraduate Medical Education Program is running 17 specialty programs recognized by the College of Physicians and Surgeons Pakistan. Infection Control Program A one-year online certification course in Infection Control is being conducted for students across Pakistan. Hospital has some innovations, so update this content: (Content has given below) Innovations in healthcare[edit]• The Indus Hospital devised Pakistan’s first and the only paperless Electronic Medical Record (EMR) system to create a Hospital Management and Information System which is efficient, cost-effective, and environment-friendly.• Indus Hospital & Health Network launched Pakistan’s first-ever “Boat Clinic” [6] to service the population of Southern Punjab. The clinic has three docking points. At each docking point, patients will be registered, screened, and have their vitals checked before seeing a doctor. • IHHN inaugurated a new Biosafety Level 3 (BSL-3) laboratory facility in Korangi on July 25, 2019. The BSL-3 laboratory is one of the largest in Pakistan, with experienced staff that has been well-trained in Tuberculosis (TB) diagnostics and biosafety practices. Indus has worked in the large healthcare system in Pakistan, Indus did many partnerships with Pakistani Government & companies: (Content given below) Alliances and Partnerships[edit]The Indus Hospital & Health Network is offering healthcare services for Pakistani nationals with the help of multiple national and international supporters, allies, and partners. These prestigious institutes support IHHN in various health projects and the establishment of centers while also providing funds and educational expertise. • Government of Sindh • Government of Punjab • International Committee of the Red Cross • Chal Foundation • Harvard Medical School’s Centre of Global Health Delivery, Dubai • St. Jude’s Children’s Research Hospital • University of Manitoba, Canada • University of IOWA, USA • Emory University, USA • Dow University of Health Sciences • Lahore University of Management Sciences • Karachi University • Getz Pharma Indus have branches in 5 different countries: (Content has given below) International Partners[edit]The Indus Hospital & Health Network has international partners in five countries. • Friends of Indus Hospital, Inc — USA • Indus Development Foundation — Canada • Friends of Indus Hospital, Australia Ltd — Australia Also, here some reference needs to added: (Content has given below) References
Ahmed, D. T. (2020, November 13). Pakistan’s first boat clinic treats people for free in Punjab. Retrieved from Samaa: https://www.samaa.tv/news/2020/11/pakistans-first-boat-clinic-treats-people-for-free-in-punjab/ KHASKHELI, S. (2020, January 14). People of Sindh received best health services under PPP govt: Murad. Retrieved from The Nation : https://nation.com.pk/14-Jan-2020/people-of-sindh-received-best-health-services-under-ppp-govt-murad Latif, A. (2019, October 2). Pakistan: Blast spurs doctor to set up hospital chain. Retrieved from Anadolu Agency: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/pakistan-blast-spurs-doctor-to-set-up-hospital-chain/1600073 News, T. (2020, October 23). Indus Hospital turns pink in solidarity with Breast Cancer patients and survivors. Retrieved from The News: https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/733462-indus-hospital-turns-pink-in-solidarity-with-breast-cancer-patients-and-survivors Reuters. (1987, July 15). Bombs Kill 72 and Wound 250 in Pakistani City. Retrieved from The New York Times : https://www.nytimes.com/1987/07/15/world/bombs-kill-72-and-wound-250-in-pakistani-city.html Zakir, F. (2016, July ). A visionary par excellence. Retrieved from The News: https://www.thenews.com.pk/magazine/us/132089-cover-story |
The format and content
[edit]Since I have been involved in guiding, then warning you regardig paid editing, I will leave it to others to accept or deny your request, Jasimriz, but I will comment upon the sweeping change that your employer wishes you to make as though I were reviewing it at WP:AFC as a draft.
- We require prose, not lists
- We require references from significant coverage about the topic of the article, and independent of it, and in WP:RS please. See WP:42. Please also see WP:PRIMARY which details the limited permitted usage of primary sources and WP:SELFPUB which has clear limitations on self published sources. Providing sufficient references, ideally one per fact referred to, that meet these tough criteria is likely to allow this article to remain. Lack of them or an inability to find them is likely to mean that the requested edit is not suitable for inclusion, certainly today.
- What is the list of footnotes at th ebottom? They need to be turned into citations
Had this been submitted as a draft I would have declined it (assuming no mainspace article had been present. My feeling is that you, since you are a self identified paid editor and are receiving a salary for your time on Wikipedia, need to do sbstantially more work on this before you submit edit requests. Our role as volunteers, while we tolerate paid editors under our terms and conditions, is not to do their work for them, your work for you.
You have already replaced the original article with your text more than once, been reverted, and been content blocked from editing this article at all. Your mission, now, is to get it right. Remember, please, that Wilipedia has no imterest in what your employer wnats to happen. It is only interested on well constructed, well referenced, neutral, factual articles. Fiddle Faddle 13:00, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
- Info box was updated but the rest is all promotional marketing. Theroadislong (talk) 13:04, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
- Theroadislong, Good distillation of the material. Thank you. Fiddle Faddle 13:06, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
| This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. {{{1}}} |
Jasimriz (talk) 04:52, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
Can you please update website links, directors & board members at least because this is very very important information these have been changed.
Board of Directors The Board of Directors of the Indus Hospital & Health Network is made up of 10 individuals. The board members, along with the chairman are appointed for three years, except for the chief executive officer.
Dr. Abdul Bari Khan – Chief Executive Officer
Abdul Karim Paracha – Chairman, Board of Directors
Dr. Amber Rashid – Member of the Board
Mian Muhammad Ahsan – Member of the Board
Anwaar Ahmad Khan – Member of the Board
Shaikh Mohammad Pervez – Member of the Board
Muhammad Yahya Chawla – Member of the Board
Khalid Khanani – Member of the Board
Adnan Asdar Ali – Member of the Board
Nasim Hyder – Member of the Board
Heads of Directorates Dr. Syed Zafar Zaidi — Senior Executive Director — Academics and Projects Directorate
Dr. Akhtar Aziz Khan — Executive Director — Anesthesiology
Dr. Muhammad Amin Chinoy — Executive Director — Physical and Rehabilitation Directorate
Dr. Muhammad Shamvil Ashraf — Executive Director — Medical Services Directorate
Syed Shahab Akhtar — Executive Director — Projects and Facilities Directorate
Mashhood Rizvi — Executive Director — Communications and Resource Development Directorate
Pervaiz Ahmed — Executive Director — Global Resource Development Directorate
Dr. Wasif Shahzad — Executive Director, Operations & Chief Operating Officer — Operations Directorate
Shakeel Akhtar — Chief Information Officer
Saira Khowaja — Executive Director — Global Health Directorate
Adnan Farooq Syed –– Executive Director –– Finance
Website Links: Friends of Indus Hospital, Inc — USA
Indus Development Foundation — Canada
Friends of Indus Hospital, Australia Ltd — Australia
Not done Wikipedia has no interest in massive lists of staff sourced to your website, this is an encyclopaedia article. Theroadislong (talk) 08:29, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
- Jasimriz, Please understand that Wikipedia is not a business directory. It is an encyclopaedia. Wisdom suggests that you request small, factual edits or corrections. Please read and understand WP:OWN. Fiddle Faddle 08:34, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
Requested Edit
[edit] | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. The reviewer would like to request the editor with a COI attempt to discuss with editors engaged in the subject-area first. |
Dear editor, As per your request, we have cited the following article. We are also requesting you to make the following minor changes to the existing Wikipedia article since some of the details, names and numbers have been changed. Anything italicized in the existing article has to be removed, changed, and updated. The new edits that have to be made are mentioned in the brackets in front of it. Edits and changes are mentioned in brackets in bold.
Indus Hospital & Health Network The Indus Hospital & Health Network formerly Indus Hospitals is a Network of are ''''(remove are)' tertiary care multidisciplinary hospitals and healthcare system in Pakistan. Construction began in 2004 and it opened in July 2007. It is located in Korangi. It is the first paperless hospital in the country.; the hospital has an e-cardiology system.[1] '(remove this part)' It is privately run but offers services free of charge. The idea of a "free public hospital" was conceived by four medical students after they visited the 1987 Bohri Bazaar bomb blast site and experienced much frustration by the limited capacity of the nearby Civil Hospital Karachi's emergency ward.
Facilities
The hospital itself serves mainly the adjoining areas of Korangi and Landhi with a population of 2.5 million in its 5-kilometer radius. But it also receives patients from the rest of Karachi.[2] This hospital is governed and funded by a philanthropic foundation. Indus Hospital (change to Indus Hospital and Health Network) mainly operates on donations from friends and supporters of its services. It provides free treatment including some medicines.[1] The phase one of this five billion rupee projecthas been (change to was) completed and made functional with 150-bed in-patient accommodation in 2007. In 2014, Indus Hospital treats 1500 patients every day for free.[2] (remove information as this is old information)
As of 2020, Indus Hospital and Health Network treats 400,000 patients daily. (add information as this is new and updated)
First paperless hospital in Pakistan
It is the first-ever paperless hospital established in Pakistan with a very user-friendly hospital management information system that was developed in-house.[3] All of the medical records including history, examination, investigations, radiological images & reports, electrocardiographies, dialysis sessions, operative notes, nursing record like fluid balance charting and vital signs monitoring, etc. are recorded directly on to the computers with no element of hard copies. "E-cardiology at the Indus Hospital Indus Hospital and Health Network uses text and multimedia messages to transfer information. (remove this information as this is incorrect)
Free artificial limbs facility launched In March 2015, a rehabilitation center for handicapped people was launched. This facility was developed with the help of International Committee of Red Cross and Chal Foundation (Walk Foundation). Between 2,000 and 2,500 artificial limbs will be manufactured and fitted to patients free of cost every year. (remove this information as this old and outdated). The hospital also will (remove will) counsels and trains disabled persons.[5]
Staff • Abdul Bari Khan (current CEO) , Indus Hospital (change to Indus Hospital and Health Network) • Siddique Shaikh, Chairman in 2015, Indus Hospital (please remove. He is no longer the chairman) • Abdul Karim Paracha, Indus Hospital and Health Network, 2020- present (please add the year he was made chairman) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.209.80.130 (talk) 11:02, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
Discussion
[edit]- Oppose major changes without consensus. Apart from considering it unwise to accede to a request from an anonymous IP there are no references whatsoever. Wikipedia has no interest im what the hospiatkl wishes to say about itself, only in what reliable sources say about the hospital.
- Minor grammatical errors wil be corrected with no requirement to discuss them
- There is a history of attempts by the org to make promotional edits, so it is good to see this request, but it needs to be qualified properly with references. Fiddle Faddle 11:25, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
Further request, courtesy heading
[edit]Jasimriz (talk) 05:55, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
| This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. Repeat of prior request. This still requires discussion. If you are having trouble getting people to discuss it then WP:TEAHOUSE may assist you. FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 21:46, 30 April 2021 (UTC) |
Dear editor, As per your request, we have cited the following article with newspaper and website references. Please make grammar changes which you mentioned Wikipedia will change without any issue. We are also requesting you to make the following minor changes to the existing Wikipedia article since some of the details, names and numbers have been changed. Anything italicized in the existing article has to be removed, changed, and updated. The new edits that have to be made are mentioned in the brackets in front of it. Edits and changes are mentioned in brackets in bold.
Indus Hospital & Health Network The Indus Hospital & Health Network formerly Indus Hospitals is a Network of are ''''(remove are)' tertiary care multidisciplinary hospitals and healthcare system in Pakistan. Construction began in 2004 and it opened in July 2007. It is located in Korangi. It is the first paperless hospital in the country.; the hospital has an e-cardiology system.[1] '(remove this part)' It is privately run but offers services free of charge. The idea of a "free public hospital" was conceived by four medical students after they visited the 1987 Bohri Bazaar bomb blast site and experienced much frustration by the limited capacity of the nearby Civil Hospital Karachi's emergency ward.
Facilities
The hospital itself serves mainly the adjoining areas of Korangi and Landhi with a population of 2.5 million in its 5-kilometer radius. But it also receives patients from the rest of Karachi.[2] This hospital is governed and funded by a philanthropic foundation. Indus Hospital (change to Indus Hospital and Health Network) mainly operates on donations from friends and supporters of its services. It provides free treatment including some medicines.[1] The phase one of this five billion rupee projecthas been (change to was) completed and made functional with 150-bed in-patient accommodation in 2007. In 2014, Indus Hospital treats 1500 patients every day for free.[2] (remove information as this is old information)
As of 2020, Indus Hospital and Health Network treats 400,000 patients daily. (add information as this is new and updated)
First paperless hospital in Pakistan
It is the first-ever paperless hospital established in Pakistan with a very user-friendly hospital management information system that was developed in-house.[3] All of the medical records including history, examination, investigations, radiological images & reports, electrocardiographies, dialysis sessions, operative notes, nursing record like fluid balance charting and vital signs monitoring, etc. are recorded directly on to the computers with no element of hard copies. "E-cardiology at the Indus Hospital Indus Hospital and Health Network uses text and multimedia messages to transfer information. (remove this information as this is incorrect)
Free artificial limbs facility launched In March 2015, a rehabilitation center for handicapped people was launched. This facility was developed with the help of International Committee of Red Cross and Chal Foundation (Walk Foundation). Between 2,000 and 2,500 artificial limbs will be manufactured and fitted to patients free of cost every year. (remove this information as this old and outdated). The hospital also will (remove will) counsels and trains disabled persons.[5]
Staff • Abdul Bari Khan (current CEO) , Indus Hospital (change to Indus Hospital and Health Network) • Siddique Shaikh, Chairman in 2015, Indus Hospital (please remove. He is no longer the chairman) • Abdul Karim Paracha, Indus Hospital and Health Network, 2020- present (please add the year he was made chairman)
Further request - courtesy heading 2
[edit]Jasimriz (talk) 21:25, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
| This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. Please exercise patience. There are, as you can see, 144 items requiring attention. Please read WP:NODEADLINE. Your request will be attended to in due course. FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 21:42, 30 April 2021 (UTC) |
Dear Editor, can you please respond to my above query. Thanks
- @Jasimriz: please exercise patience. There is no deadline for anything in Wikipedia. Repeated requests do not endear the requestor to the community FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 21:42, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
Copyright problem removed
[edit]
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.sadaewatansydney.com/0001indus.htm. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)
For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, provided it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. 🇺🇦 FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 🇺🇦 11:34, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
Copyright problem removed
[edit] Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: https://indushospital.org.pk/about-us/how-we-started/. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)
For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, provided it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. 🇺🇦 FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 🇺🇦 19:07, 1 February 2023 (UTC)