Talk:Dimethyl sulfate
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"In 1994 Gloria Ramirez, a 31 year old cancer patient was admitted to the emergency room at a Riverside California hospital with convulsions and bradycardia. Emergency room personnel who worked in close proximity to the dying woman fell victim to a number of strange symptoms, including nausea, vomiting, fainting, and in the case of medical resident Julie Gorchynski, avascular necrosis. Later analysis hypothesised that drugs in Ramirez's system had reacted to produce dimethyl sulfate.[1] Ramirez died of kidney failure later that day."
- This was added since, as far as I know, although the analysis is controversial, the episode is unique in medical science. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:42, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
- It isn't controversial. Multiple experts, both organic chemists and clinical researchers on DMSO discredited the theory. This part, for instance, is pure "folk chemistry": But how did the dimethyl sulfone convert to the nerve gas dimethyl sulfate? The Livermore chemists envision a reaction--which hasn’t yet been observed--in which some of the molecules of dimethyl sulfone in Ramirez’s blood broke apart. What had been (CH3)2SO2 became CH3, CH3, and SO2. Sulfates (SO4) are common in the body, so the two CH3 molecules may have linked up with them to form (CH3)2SO4--dimethyl sulfate. But in her warm blood, the dimethyl sulfate was unstable and quickly fell apart into its hydrocarbon and sulfate components. There's no such thing as a "CH3 molecule"; a methyl radical is extremely reactive and likely survives microseconds in physiological conditions. The actual proposed reaction mechanism is here, but I don't have access. Having worked with related chemistry, I don't see it, but then again enzymes can do unexpected things, so it's unresolved. However, as long as dimethyl sulfate has not been directly proven as the etiology, this article shouldn't mention it. There is already the article Gloria Ramirez. --vuo (talk) 21:17, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks for clarifying. Yes, there is the article for Ramirez. If it's not been directly proven, then it seems perfectly reasonable not to include it here. I'm not even sure how this would be categorically proven. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:34, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
- Currently, the page says "the person at the centre of the incident had built up dimethyl sulfone crystals in her blood," but dimethyl sulfone is soluble to 187 g/L at 30C in water, making formations of crystals exceedingly unlikely, even though dimethyl sulfone is considered rather non-toxic. Uxleumas (talk) 20:37, 13 July 2026 (UTC)
- Thanks for clarifying. Yes, there is the article for Ramirez. If it's not been directly proven, then it seems perfectly reasonable not to include it here. I'm not even sure how this would be categorically proven. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:34, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
- It isn't controversial. Multiple experts, both organic chemists and clinical researchers on DMSO discredited the theory. This part, for instance, is pure "folk chemistry": But how did the dimethyl sulfone convert to the nerve gas dimethyl sulfate? The Livermore chemists envision a reaction--which hasn’t yet been observed--in which some of the molecules of dimethyl sulfone in Ramirez’s blood broke apart. What had been (CH3)2SO2 became CH3, CH3, and SO2. Sulfates (SO4) are common in the body, so the two CH3 molecules may have linked up with them to form (CH3)2SO4--dimethyl sulfate. But in her warm blood, the dimethyl sulfate was unstable and quickly fell apart into its hydrocarbon and sulfate components. There's no such thing as a "CH3 molecule"; a methyl radical is extremely reactive and likely survives microseconds in physiological conditions. The actual proposed reaction mechanism is here, but I don't have access. Having worked with related chemistry, I don't see it, but then again enzymes can do unexpected things, so it's unresolved. However, as long as dimethyl sulfate has not been directly proven as the etiology, this article shouldn't mention it. There is already the article Gloria Ramirez. --vuo (talk) 21:17, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
References
- ↑ Analysis of a Toxic Death Richard Stone, Discover Magazine, April 1995.
Usage as a chemical weapon
[edit]I believe it is relevant to the article to list the substance's history with chemical weapons programs. If there's no disagreement, I'd like to write this section. George Mucus (talk) 00:54, 24 July 2023 (UTC)