Talk:Alligator Alcatraz

concentration camp

guys, come on.

really, I'm speechless. This is beneath wikipedia. This should be removed. At least the Auschwitz comparison. Name dropping that is just... yeah I have no words. The entire paragraph is stupid and has no place in an encyclopedia. How is what some dipshit says in an editorial relevant here? We already have the facts. I propose that any mention of death camps from the Holocaust, especially by name, be cut from this article. It's just not healthy to include. Binglederry (talk) 03:23, 4 July 2025 (UTC)

Since when is "healthy to include" a content policy? --ZimZalaBim ^talk 03:37, 4 July 2025 (UTC)

Wikipedia doesn't operate off of your feelings. God help this website the day that the No Notoriety people start removing perpetrator's names from murder and tragedy articles. StrangeApparition2011 (talk) 18:41, 5 July 2025 (UTC)

Calling it a "concentration camp" is an abysmal insult to people that actually went through those camps. The cited "articles" are HEAVILY biased. Both of them are rated as biased/less-than-credible sources by independent fact checkers. 24.120.61.89 (talk) 22:30, 8 July 2025 (UTC)

No it’s not an insult actually. Alligator Alcatraz may not be as bad as the Nazi death camps but it is still a concentration camp meant to hold any and all latinos and people of colour. Trump claims it’s for illegal immigrants but it’s for way more than just illegal immigrants. Coughers (talk) 04:13, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

Concentration camps weren't invented in WW2. They were a thing before and after and they don't need to involve gas chambers or jews. The US built their own to intern Japanese as well, and recognizing that is not any kind of insult to the ones in Nazi Germany either. Dustz (talk) 11:00, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

(discussing the "concentration camp" subject, not the TNR article above) The narrative that Alligator Alcatraz is a concentration camp is false. Here is why. "It is also crucial to note that a “concentration camp” is defined broadly as a place where people are imprisoned not because they are guilty of any crimes, but simply because of who they are." This tends to be true with the Alligator Alcatraz, as the facility's purpose is to house illegal immigrants who have committed the crime of crossing the American border illegally, hence they are illegal, regardless of color, race, religious background, or social status/class. Citing this piece (WARNING THIRD PARTY PDF LINK; WIKI DOES NOT LINK PDF PAGES: "https://www.janm.org/sites/default/files/2020-11/janm-education-resources-enduring-communities-terminology.pdf" an official one-page PDF produced by JANM, an AAM-accredited museum and Smithsonian affiliate, founded in 1985 to preserve and share Japanese American history. Extra resources: (THIS IS THE SOURCE OF THE LINKED ABOVE PDF PAGE OFFICAL WEBPAGE LINK/NOT PDF): https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/terminology-and-the-mass-incarceration-of-japanese-americans-during-world-war-ii.htm 2600:6C5E:4B3F:5585:10D6:9EA7:DE1B:AB4E (talk) 17:07, 13 July 2025 (UTC)

The real question is, why is it just a throwaway line with attribution? The comparison is important enough to belong in the lede, and enough critics have used the term to justify using it in wikivoice. 46.97.170.26 (talk) 11:48, 11 July 2025 (UTC)

====This page is for discussing the article, not the subject ===

Discuss sources, policies, wording etc. Not a place to pointlessly rsnt about Wikipedia. Thanks. Doug Weller talk 19:16, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

Did you mean to make this a header? I can do stuff! (talk) 23:32, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

Pages that (do not) link

The Tool of pages that link to this page show an enormous number of pages that actually do not link to this page: History of the Panama Canal, United States and the Paris Agreement, etc. How does one correct this? LauraHartwell UT1 (talk) 20:30, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

This article is included in Template:Second_presidency_of_Donald_Trump, which is used on those pages. --ZimZalaBim ^talk 00:05, 27 October 2025 (UTC)

Thank you. LauraHartwell UT1 (talk) 15:48, 2 July 2026 (UTC)

Undue and POV concerns

This article keeps growing and growing, as if any single mention of AA in a news article suddenly is worthy of incdluing here. That's not what an encyclopedia is for. We need to provide details about and facility, its background and operation, and controversies/challenges that have received meaningful coverage by independent soures. A lot of framing in the text is borderline POV-pushing (casting in the most negative light possible, etc), and I've been trying to cleanup to make the content and tone more encyclopedic. --ZimZalaBim^talk 16:16, 30 June 2026 (UTC)

Further, this article isn't for content that discusses/debates/criticizes the broader immigration policy. This is about the facility. Keep it at that. --ZimZalaBim^talk 01:23, 1 July 2026 (UTC)

@LauraHartwell UT1: making sure you're seeing this thread. --ZimZalaBim^talk 13:03, 2 July 2026 (UTC)

Hello ZimZalaBim, I understand your point. I have added a note to the ICE Flight Monitor Report reference so that it is easier to find the flight data for Ochopee, which is town where the airport/detention facility is located. The facility was basically an airport with tents. There are many other articles I have not cited. For example, there are numerous fake AI-generated images of the site with little link to reality. Have you found a single article stating a postiive fact about the site lately? I have not. Also, it seems to me that the 21,000 people who were detained at the site are an important aspect of the facility's history, as much so as the alligators. On a previous erased addition, I had written, "filed a lawsuit", when it should have been, "was released after winning his lawsuit". One cannot cite official court rulings? It is difficult to understand the purpose or interest of such a rule. LauraHartwell UT1 (talk) 15:47, 2 July 2026 (UTC)

Note WP:PRIMARY - we should avoid simply sourcing direclty to court filings. We should strive for independent WP:RS to suggest things are notable. Simply because a detail shows up in a court document doesn't meet it needs to be included here. --ZimZalaBim^talk 16:36, 2 July 2026 (UTC)

My note of today is not well written: "The "and" of the DeSantis quote is misleading because 21,000 persons were processed on site, but not deported, only "shuffled" or released". It should be, "The "and" of the DeSantis quote is misleading because 21,000 persons were processed on site, but not all of them were deported, some were "shuffled" or released. I don't know if anyone has the figures on those three categories. According to the ICE Flight Monitor, there has been a 97% increase in "shuffle" flights in one year, but that is national data and I did not add any national data. LauraHartwell UT1 (talk) 15:58, 2 July 2026 (UTC)

Deportation flights

@LauraHartwell UT1: Re your edit summary reverting me, I don't see where in this report it indicates flight details specific to this facility (SFDF). Further, it is unclear why such details are necessary to include for this encyclopedia article. Please advise. --ZimZalaBim^talk 16:34, 2 July 2026 (UTC)

Thank you for asking. The flight details specific to this facility are listed under "Ochopee", which is also listed in the info box of the wikipedia page as the location of the facility. There are no other airports in Ochopee. There are several references to Ochopee in the document, but the numbers are from page 27. I have added a note on the page in the reference.

The details of the use of the runway is organic to the site. That there were an average of 3 to 4 flights per WEEK means that it was a major activity on-site. It does not fall under costs or construction because the airport was already there. In my humble opinion the site was chosen for the airstrip and not the alligators. I assume ICE paid for the flights because immigration is a federal issue, but I don't know. LauraHartwell UT1 (talk) 17:45, 2 July 2026 (UTC)

Sounds like some WP:SYNTH/WP:OR to connect this to Aligator Alcatraz, and for your justification to why it is relevant. I don't see a justifical for including these particular details from a primary source. --ZimZalaBim^talk 19:05, 2 July 2026 (UTC)

DeSantis has been very clear that the airport, a "hub", was a key element, as for references 59 and 60, see also: Florida Gov DeSantis announces deportation flights out of ‘Alligator Alcatraz'. Nothing about the airstrip is original research or POV. It's common sense. Florida has no international borders and one does not remove people by boat. Deporting from Florida requires an airport. If there is one point that is POV on the current page, it is the citation that the facility was closed because of hurricane season. Many articles note that it opened last year during hurricane season and that the closure follows a two-month public debate and disclosure of the high costs, so it doesn't even make sense. In order to remove this POV it seems this quote should include either a critique noting the incoherence (there are plenty of articles on this) or simply end the sentence after, "On June 16, 2026, DHS officials indicated that all detainees had been transferred to undisclosed locations". LauraHartwell UT1 (talk) 07:09, 5 July 2026 (UTC)

Camp

According to Merriam Webster dictionary, the first definition of "camp" is "a place usually away from urban areas where tents or simple buildings (such as cabins) are erected for shelter or for temporary residence (as for laborers, prisoners, or vacationers). This describes what was set up over the past year.

The 32sq-mile airport was already present on site and was not constructed by the present administration. The administration laid 20sq miles of asphalt, but only set up trailers, temporary tents or toilets, and zero permanent buildings. Thus, irrespective of one's political opinion, and based on logistics, they built a camp.

The inappropriate occurrences of "facility" can be replaced by 'camp' when appropriate, or a neutral term such as 'it' or 'facility' in both the official names or other appropriate occasions. As noted and referenced on the page since its beginning, the President himself considers such sites to be a "camp". The current overuse of 'facility' is actually a POV, as it gives verbal solidity to a temporary set up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LauraHartwell UT1 (talk • contribs) 06:19, 7 August 2026 (UTC)

What? You're using your interpretation of a dictionary entry to dictate that the generic term "facility" is POV and therefore "camp" is better? This makes zero sense to me. (Also, you didn't abidge by WP:BRD -- this discussion needs to happen to achieve consensus before you undo my revert). --ZimZalaBim^talk 14:23, 7 August 2026 (UTC)

Further, the word "facility" is literally in its name. --ZimZalaBim^talk 15:05, 7 August 2026 (UTC)