Template talk:New year header

New decade

It is suggested that before end of 2019 the template is enhanced to be usable to be included in the articles 2010s and 2020s.--BIL (talk) 00:04, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

This template has it backwards

Earlier time zones are the ones which reach the new year sooner, if you ask me. The ones which are generally found in the east. The page for UTC+14:00 correctly describes it as "the earliest time zone on Earth".

So I think we should fix this error in this template. --Grey Clownfish (talk) 01:43, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

@EmperorChesser: You restored the backwards wording. What's your argument for it?

The way I see it, if someone comes early for an event, we say they came early, not late. Likewise, early time zones are the ones for which the new year comes early. It simply astounds me that this template has gotten such a basic concept backwards for so many years. Grey Clownfish (talk) 06:50, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

@Grey Clownfish Selective quoting. The next sentence at UTC+14:00 says "It is also referred to as the "latest time zone" on Earth, as clocks in it always show the 'latest' (i.e., most advanced) time of all time zones."

The new year comes earlier to Europe than to the Americas, but at any instant, the clock time in Europe is later than in the Americas. To me, the latter sense is the natural meaning of "the time zone is (earlier/later) than...". But to avoid ambiguity, it would be better to replace the terms with ahead and behind. So for the year that has begun in parts of the world, the text should be where the time zone is UTC+XXX or ahead; for the year that is ending, it should be where the time zone is behind UTC+XXX. Set theorist (talk) 10:34, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

There is nothing natural about defining the terms "earlier" and "later" that way. It's like saying that you were older in the past, because it was an "older" time.

In fact, you can think of later time zones as being like younger people, and their time as their age. Their time is "earlier" because they are later. Like how younger people are in an earlier stage of their life. Grey Clownfish (talk) 11:42, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

That's also what I meant to say. When you say earlier than UTC+XXX, you are mentioning the time zones behind it, so, for example, earlier than UTC means UTC–1, UTC–2, …

Later than UTC+XXX is defined the same as above, but reversed. For instance, time zones later than UTC+7 are UTC+8, UTC+8:45, …, all the way to UTC+14.

Many people find these concepts confusing, so I have come up with a pretty easy explanation. You see, when it is midnight in the UTC+14 time zone, it is still 10:00 the previous day in the UTC time zone. Thus, UTC+14 is later than UTC.

I hope that it helps you clarify why I changed the wording in the template. Happy new year, and happy editing! EmperorChesser 11:08, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

I would say "later than UTC" to mean UTC-1, UTC-2, etc. "Earlier than UTC" is UTC+1, UTC+2, etc.

Using the terms backwards is promoting confusion. Grey Clownfish (talk) 11:45, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

You are reversing the correct definitions. Earlier than UTC is always behind UTC, which includes minus UTC offsets. Later than UTC is ahead of UTC.

If you want to avoid confusion, you can use the terms behind and ahead of instead.

I see that the terms were changed inside the source code at last, so it probably should resolve your issue. EmperorChesser 12:44, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

Yes, much better now. Set theorist (talk) 13:42, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

Something that does something early is early, not late. Not sure why it would be the reverse for time zones. Grey Clownfish (talk) 02:30, 2 January 2026 (UTC)

Alright, I have searched the web and found out that you're correct – UTC+14 is the earliest time zone.

However, many people still use the term latest time zone, which can cause confusion. I still recommend applying behind and ahead of for this template. EmperorChesser 02:38, 2 January 2026 (UTC)

@EmperorChesser So why did you revert the change? It was fine when @Grey Clownfish made the change to "behind" and "ahead", which matches your recommendation here, but then you changed it back to "later" and "earlier", which causes confusion. And I have no idea what you mean by "I have searched the web and found out that ... UTC+14 is the earliest time zone." Where did you search and what sources did you find? Set theorist (talk) 23:46, 3 January 2026 (UTC)

I found the information in around 10 different sources, not including Wikipedia. And then, actually, now I don't understand why I changed the wordings to the version on December 31. EmperorChesser 11:11, 4 January 2026 (UTC)

@EmperorChesser Do you care to share some of the 10 sources you found? In any event, what was wrong with using "ahead" and "behind", which I thought we all agreed was unambiguous and preferable? Set theorist (talk) 16:33, 4 January 2026 (UTC)

To be honest, I only looked at the results of my Google search, and that was everything. EmperorChesser 10:19, 5 January 2026 (UTC)

Since everyone voted for "behind" and "ahead of", I will stick back to the terms, which were what I recommended several days before. If there is nothing more that I need to answer, I'm out of this. EmperorChesser 10:22, 5 January 2026 (UTC)

Excellent. It's been changed back to "ahead" and "behind", so let's keep it that way. Set theorist (talk) 01:18, 6 January 2026 (UTC)