Template talk:MBTA subway system

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@OrdinaryScarlett, AlphaBeta135, and Hotdog with ketchup: As I'm updating this for the Symphony closure, I realize we should have consistent usage of HST versus BHF for this (and the other MBTA subway line templates). Currently, on the Green Line and Mattapan Line, BHF is used rather arbitrarily for "major" stations with no standard criteria. I'm about to do some standardization - E subway stops as BHF, B and C surface stops as HST - but more is needed. Two potential schemes come to mind:

• BHF for gated stations, HST for ungated stations. This will be a bit awkward with the GLX stations (including elevated Lechmere since they are ungated but otherwise similar in size to most gated stations.
• BHF for grade-separated stations, HST for street-level stations. A bit awkward to have the tiny Mattapan Line stations use the same iconography as the metro stations, but the line is mostly grade-separated.

Thoughts? Pi.1415926535 (talk) 05:42, 3 June 2026 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I do not know enough about the T to provide an opinion of value, so I think whatever you have planned will work just fine, and I can follow up if I have any questions about your changes. Hotdog with ketchup (talk) 12:13, 3 June 2026 (UTC)

@Pi.1415926535: My sincere apologies for the delay. I was on vacation for the past week or so and didn't have a whole lot of time to ponder about this, so I wanted to wait until after I got back home. I'm not very familiar with the T either and don't feel qualified to give an opinion here, so take my word with a hefty pinch of salt:

Are all the street-level Green Line stations and the Mattapan Line stations more like streetcar stops in terms of infrastructure, or do some of them have more built-up infrastructure that makes them more like "proper" stations? I would usually just use BHF for "proper" stations and HST for "streetcar-like" at-grade stops. I think I would lean towards the latter scheme; in situations like these that's what I've tended to favor. But I'd still ultimately leave it up to you since you're far more familiar with the system, perhaps you could even use a "common-sense" approach where you could make an exemption for the GLX stations or the Mattapan Line stations depending on which scheme you use? I'd say I'm probably more partial to the second scheme (with an exemption for the Mattapan Line stations, unless total consistency was absolutely necessary).

If we're already pinging other editors, I do think there are some editors here who've done some very invaluable work on route diagram templates: @Useddenim, Mjdestroyerofworlds, WMSR, SleepTrain456, SomeRailfan, Mackensen, and Jackdude101: I feel better asking for their opinion over mine, honestly. OrdinaryScarlett (talk) 10:36, 8 June 2026 (UTC)

@OrdinaryScarlett: While I've been to Boston before, I haven't been on Boston public transit yet, but I'll still give my two cents. I think the Mattapan line would best be mapped with HST, given the very light rolling stock and minimal passenger infrastructure. As for the Green Line, there seems to be a large variation in the physical size of stations, with some being little more than just platforms. In any case, underground stations should be mapped as BHF, but I can't think of a clear-cut distinction between HST and BHF for surface stations. SomeRailfan (talk) 10:53, 8 June 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for tagging me! I'd go with HST for the Mattapan Line, since it's basically a streetcar without a street. I'd also go with HST for Green Line stations within a street, and BHF for grade-separated, elevated, or underground Green Line stations. As for the Blue/Red/Orange Lines, maybe they can be BHF as well? - SleepTrain456 14:12, 8 June 2026 (UTC)

The tricky part is that infrastructure-wise, D Branch stops and Mattapan Line stops (and even GLX stops) are functionally the same. They're both on (mostly) grade-separated private ROWs, with platforms but no faregates. The D Branch and especially GLX certainly feel different based on station and vehicle size, but there's no objective criteria that differentiate them - and within a decade the Mattapan Line will be using ex-Green Line LRVs rather than the current streetcars. I'm not inherently opposed to "B/C/E surface and Mattapan Line are HST, all others BHF", but I don't know how we would explain it in the legend. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 21:22, 8 June 2026 (UTC)

I'm not super familiar with Boston-area transport (though I have heard of the Mattapan Line, as it resembles a heritage line), but assigning BHF for grade-separated stations and HST for street-level stations seems like the superior option. As for clear-cut distinctions between BHF and HST for surface stations, the least subjective criteria would be boarding and alighting statistics for each station. You would just need to decide on a threshold figure where anything at or above would be BHF and anything below would be HST. Checking metro system RDTs in other major cities for common practice on this topic could be helpful, also. Jackdude101 ^talk cont 02:07, 9 June 2026 (UTC)

Ridership would be a very opaque way to do it; you end with stations with identical physical characteristics but slightly different ridership having different icons. There are even some Green Line surface stations (Coolidge Corner station, Longwood Medical Area station, etc) with higher ridership than some grade-separated, fare-gated metro stations (Suffolk Downs station, Savin Hill station, etc). We also don't have ridership newer than the early 2010s for the Green Line surface stations.

Unfortunately, there don't seem to be any systems that have this many typologies: grade-separated gated stations (both heavy rail and light rail), [mostly] grade-separated light rail stations on a range from small platforms to full-size elevated stations, and street-level light rail stations – all with an order of magnitude in ridership spread across each typology. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 02:29, 9 June 2026 (UTC)

It's been a long time since riding the Green Line in college, but someone remind me if all stops are compulsory, or if any sections (specifically the street-running ones and the MHSL) are request only. There's a part of me that's tempted to say "just make them all BHF for clarity of the diagram", but I'm not ready to be that heavy handed quite yet. -MJ (talk) 04:48, 9 June 2026 (UTC)

If ridership stats have not been made publicly available in over a decade, then yes, that idea is out just for that alone. As for no frames of reference present in other systems, the silver lining for that is that gives us the opportunity to establish one here. Here's an idea: why not combine the two options above and say a station can be BHF if it's gated and/or grade-separated, and HST if it's neither? Jackdude101 ^talk cont 01:09, 10 June 2026 (UTC)

Looks good to me! SomeRailfan (talk) 03:15, 10 June 2026 (UTC)

That's more or less the criteria I use, too: if there's fare collection/control that's more than a self-serve machine, and/or a permanent structure that's more than a simple shelter, then I'll use BHF on a light rail line. Useddenim (talk) 04:47, 15 June 2026 (UTC)

@Squishyawaylittle6 and Lost on Belmont: Sorry, forgot to ping you two as well, you both have done some fine work as well! OrdinaryScarlett (talk) 01:51, 10 June 2026 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply. To say my life is busy right now would be an understatement. Like others here, I'm not as familiar with the T, but I'll give my take based on what I know. Blue, Red, Orange Lines: BHF. Mattapan line should be HST. As for the Green Line, are any of the stations on any portion of the line request only? If so, request stops should be HST and all others should be BHF. If all trains stop at all stations, then I would say that whether or not the station is gated or not is the separator, regardless of how much infrastructure there is/isn't. Lost on  Belmont  ^3200N_1000W  (talk) 19:00, 12 June 2026 (UTC)