Talk:Ziran

Additions

Hi Jossi, I've added some Chinese information to this stub. I'd be glad to add more if you don't mind my changing the reference citation format to simple inline (instead of <ref tags, which I see as wasteful HTML). You might want to quote Singerland and Lai, both of which look interesting. Best wishes. [[User:Keahapana|Keahapana]] ([[User talk:Keahapana|talk]]) 01:46, 14 March 2008 (UTC) == Question == So is "ziran" also transliterated as "tzu-jan"? This article provides only one transliteration, & does not state which system it is. -- [[User:Llywrch|llywrch]] ([[User talk:Llywrch|talk]]) 19:50, 21 July 2019 (UTC) == Academic? == Is "'as-it-isness'" an academic term? [[Special:Contributions/79.106.203.67|79.106.203.67]] ([[User talk:79.106.203.67|talk]]) 07:54, 11 May 2024 (UTC) :It's used in the source cited directly following its quotation. [[User:Remsense|<span style="border-radius:2px 0 0 2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F;color:#fff">Remsense]]诉 10:08, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Adding Wade-Giles to the lead

Hi @Remsense,

I understand that there is a place for giving the Wade-Giles in the info box. But unfortunately one must click on a "show" button in order to see it, otherwise it remains hidden from view.

I just took a quick look around at some other wiki pages on Chinese figures and titles and Wade-Giles appeared consistently in the leads for those pages.

My own personal view is that Wikipedia should make information more accessible and visible, and not less. I therefore see no harm in adding Wade-Giles to the lead as well, especially in this case where the Wade-Giles and Pinyin forms (tzu-jan and ziran respectively) are different enough as to confuse casual readers. The page mostly uses the Pinyin, but the Wade-Giles form appears a few times as well, and it should be clear to everyone that tzu-jan = ziran.

Sincerely, Likes Thai Food (talk) 01:44, 1 July 2025 (UTC)

It doesn't consistently appear in other article leads, it appears when someone decided to add it. I would say it's appropriate to include as an alternate spelling only when it still appears as a common variant in English sources, like with Tao. Remsense 🌈 论 01:46, 1 July 2025 (UTC)

Well, Wade-Giles was still being used in published materials even into the late 1990s. So, it would not be uncommon for a reader to still encounter it. And since tzu-jan is the form used in some of the sources cited for the page, I think it should be made as clear as possible that that's just a different spelling form of the same word. Likes Thai Food (talk) 02:02, 1 July 2025 (UTC)

I agree it should be included for clarity since Wade Giles still appears in many relatively recent publications by Western scholars. Even in Swanson's recent translations for example, he uses Wade Giles still. Also, its a pretty minor addition to the lead so I don't see it as a big issue. Javier F.V. 14:29, 1 July 2025 (UTC)