Talk:Zhengde Emperor

Impotency?

I wonder if anyone can elaborate on why the Zhengde Emperor was without heir if the article emphasizes his womanizer ways. He died at the age of 30, well past the cultural norm of pairing up and fathering many children. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Missaneurysm (talk • contribs) 11:25, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Dark affliction

Don't know if the original place about this mysterious thing is at History of Ming scroll 28. Opinions, anyone? Benjwong (talk) 00:46, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Zhengde's ties with Muslims at his court

• Dardess, John W. (2012). Ming China, 1368-1644: A Concise History of a Resilient Empire. Rowman & Littlefield. ISBN 1442204915. Retrieved 24 April 2014. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

• Naquin, Susan (2000). Peking: Temples and City Life, 1400-1900. University of California Press. ISBN 0520923456. Retrieved 24 April 2014. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

• Chiang Han Hua Jennifer (April 28, 2007). "Crossing Culture in the Blue-and-White with Arabic or Persian inscriptions under Emperor Zhengde (r. 1506-21)" (PDF). FINE2055 Crossing Cultures: China and the Outside World Dr. Yeewan Koon Spring 2008. The University of Hong Kong Faculty of Arts School of Humanities Department of Fine Arts. Archived from the original (PDF) on 2013. Retrieved 22 May 2014. {{cite journal}}: Check date values in: |archivedate= (help); line feed character in |journal= at position 72 (help)

• O'Kane, Bernard (2012). The Civilization of the Islamic World. The Rosen Publishing Group. ISBN 1448885094. Retrieved 24 April 2014. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

• Levenson, Jay A. (1991). Circa 1492: Art in the Age of Exploration. Yale University Press. ISBN 0300051670. Retrieved 24 April 2014. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help); Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)

• "Lot 37 A RARE BLUE AND WHITE SCREEN Zhengde six-character mark and of the period". Bonhams. 8 Nov 2012 10:00 GMT. Retrieved 24 April 2014. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); line feed character in |title= at position 7 (help)

• Oriental Blue and White, London, 1970, p.29.

• Garner, Sir Harry M. (1970). Oriental Blue and White. The Faber monographs on pottery and porcelain (3rd ed.). London: Faber. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); Invalid |ref=harv (help)

• Britannica Educational Publishing (2010). Kuiper, Kathleen (ed.). The Culture of China. Britannica Educational Publishing. ISBN 1615301836. Retrieved 24 April 2014. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

• Valenstein, Suzanne G. (1988). Metropolitan Museum of Art (New York, N.Y.) (ed.). A Handbook of Chinese Ceramics (illustrated, revised ed.). Metropolitan Museum of Art. ISBN 0810911701. Retrieved 24 April 2014. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

• ter Haar, B. J. (2006). Telling Stories: Witchcraft And Scapegoating in Chinese History. Vol. Volume 71 of Sinica Leidensia (illustrated ed.). BRILL. ISBN 9004148442. Retrieved 24 April 2014. {{cite book}}: |volume= has extra text (help); Invalid |ref=harv (help)

• Kitagawa, Joseph Mitsuo, ed. (2002). The Religious Traditions of Asia: Religion, History, and Culture (illustrated, reprint ed.). Psychology Press. ISBN 0700717625. Retrieved 24 April 2014. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

• Spence, Jonathan D.; Wills, Jr., John E., eds. (1979). From Ming to Ch'ing: Conquest, Region, and Continuity in Seventeenth-century China (illustrated, revised ed.). Yale University Press. ISBN 0300026722. Retrieved 24 April 2014. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

• Perdue, Peter C (2009). China Marches West: The Qing Conquest of Central Eurasia. Harvard University Press. ISBN 0674042026. Retrieved 24 April 2014. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

• Mote, Frederick W. (2003). Imperial China 900-1800 (illustrated ed.). Harvard University Press. ISBN 0674012127. Retrieved 24 April 2014. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

• Association for Asian Studies. Ming Biographical History Project Committee (1976). Association for Asian Studies. Ming Biographical History Project Committee; Goodrich, Luther Carrington; 房, 兆楹 (eds.). Dictionary of Ming Biography, 1368-1644, Volume 1. Vol. Volume 1 of Dictionary of Ming Biography 1368-1644: The Ming Biographical History Project of the Association for Asian Studies (illustrated ed.). Columbia University Press. ISBN 0231038011. Retrieved 24 April 2014. {{cite book}}: |volume= has extra text (help); Invalid |ref=harv (help)

• Toh, Hoong Teik (2000). Shaykh ʹÂlam: The Emperor of Early Sixteenth-century China (PDF). Department of Asian and Middle Eastern Studies, University of Pennsylvania. ISSN (print) 2157-0679 (print) (PDF). Retrieved 24 April 2014. {{cite book}}: |archive-url= requires |archive-date= (help); Check |issn= value (help); Invalid |ref=harv (help)

• Toh, Hoong Teik (October, 2000). Mair, Victor H. (ed.). "Shaykh ʹÂlam: The Emperor of Early Sixteenth-century China" (PDF). SINO-PLATONIC PAPERS (Number 110). Department of East Asian Language and Civilizations University of Pennsylvania: 1–20. ISSN (online) 2157-9687 (online). Retrieved 24 May 2014. {{cite journal}}: |number= has extra text (help); Check |issn= value (help); Check date values in: |date= (help)

• 黃, 鴻釗. "澳門海洋文化的若干問題" (PDF): 164–169. Retrieved 24 May 2014. {{cite journal}}: Cite journal requires |journal= (help)

• {{cite book}}: Empty citation (help)

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Zhengde was close to muslim eunuchs at his court and is rumored to have converted to Islam, he passed an edict banning pig farming. The majority of his eunuchs were Muslims.

http://books.google.com/books?id=ROQVzWT2iiUC&pg=PA47#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=bANasl7nayUC&pg=PA213#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://www.fa.hku.hk/home/JenChianEssay.pdf

http://finearts.hku.hk/wp-content/uploads/revamp2013/misc/2009/JenChianEssay.pdf

http://www.docin.com/p-442754028.html

http://www.wendangwu.com/doc/content/201212/21/232518047096.html

http://books.google.com/books?id=A7HMZ-flk9kC&pg=PA207#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=wMK-Ba0-RG4C&pg=PA477#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/20024/lot/37/

http://books.google.com/books?id=o0pS_hjfKs8C&pg=PA175#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=o0pS_hjfKs8C&pg=PA176#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=wnVwuJvo4YgC&pg=PA187#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=-PVPyPRcPBYC&pg=PA4#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=5LSvkQvvmAMC&pg=PA361&dq=ming+restorationist+muslim&hl=en&sa=X&ei=eT-fUP3jC4a70AGv94G4Bg&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=riPEes0xs-YC&pg=PA181#v=onepage&q&f=false

Zhengde had several Uighur and Semu concubines who were brought to him by his Central Asian bodyguard, Yu Yong, who might have been trying to convert him to Islam.

http://books.google.com/books?id=J4L-_cjmSqoC&pg=PA64&dq=zhengde+Uighur+concubine&hl=en&sa=X&ei=5efiUqedMMLksATmkYCICw&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=zhengde%20Uighur%20concubine&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=SQWW7QgUH4gC&pg=PA657&dq=Zhengde+exotic+women+Mongol+Uighur&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1OviUqKPJsXjsASlgYKIBQ&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Zhengde%20exotic%20women%20Mongol%20Uighur&f=false

The surname of the Mongolian speaking Semu concubine is Ma.

馬姬

http://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-hant/马姬_(明武宗)

http://books.google.com/books?id=067On0JgItAC&pg=PA309&dq=chu+hou-chao+central+asian+uighur&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_O3iUp_2N5LlsASr-oKoAQ&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=chu%20hou-chao%20central%20asian%20uighur&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=067On0JgItAC&pg=PA314&dq=chu+hou-chao+uighur&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8O3iUoP9KdDksAT8_IGIBQ&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=chu%20hou-chao%20uighur&f=false

http://www.sino-platonic.org/complete/spp110_wuzong_emperor.pdf

http://books.google.com/books?id=Z6JwAAAAMAAJ&q=Wuzong+Uighur+concubine&dq=Wuzong+Uighur+concubine&hl=en&sa=X&ei=X-riUrjfHtHLsAS32oD4BA&ved=0CFcQ6AEwBw

The Central asian bodyguard was .於永 Yu Yong

你兒干 你兒幹 Ni'ergan was the Uyghur concubine

明武宗

http://www3.ipm.edu.mo/cweb/p_2systems/2010_7/book5_vision/p164.pdf

03:37, 2 February 2014 (UTC) 04:57, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

大慶法王 總督軍務威武大將軍 朱壽 鎮國公 太師

明武宗

北虜譯語

沙吉敖爛

شيخ عالم

扎老兀

噶老文

沙希

沙希馬得兒 شاهى مادر 聖母

沙希阿勒哈密 شاهى الهام 聖論

沙黑敖爛

沙黑咱得 شاه زاد 太子

沙吉兒得 شاگرد

- How does he know which is fabricated and which is not? Especially since half of his books don’t provide proper citations and as demonstrated by a proper academic journal utilised in this article, there were many pro-Islamic myths flying around during the period. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yusufalhindi (talk • contribs) 01:39, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

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Died at age 29 or 31?

The intro says he died at age 29, the Infobox says 29, and the Death section says 31. Can someone confirm and hopefully provide a reference? ₪RicknAsia₪ 05:21, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

It's been changed, but still sounds a bit confusing. As I understand it, he died at 29 going by the modern way of counting someone's age. However, if we're going by the method of determining someone's age that was used during the time in which he was alive, then he was 31 years old at the time of his death. Nakonana (talk) 13:28, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Great victory at yingzhou

I feel like his victory over dayan khan should be explored more 2603:8001:8446:6EBB:6204:16AD:9669:E397 (talk) 15:44, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Are those porcelain plates actually from his court?

All of the links cited show that those works of porcelain came from during his reign. None indicate a direct connection to his court. Yusufalhindi (talk) 01:33, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Right if no one is to going to reply to this, I will remove the citations and indicate that there is no source for this. Yusufalhindi (talk) 14:16, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Interest in Hui women and interest in foreign culture?

This could help perhaps clear up some doubts regarding his beliefs and antics.

As seen in one of the talk comments, Zhu Hou Zhao was interested in foreign,namely Hui women, though sources clearly indicate that it was due to lust and not a religious preference.

The same can be said for his liking of Arabic/Persian Calligraphy, he was a fan of foreign cultures in general, having also shown an interest in Tibetan, Mongol and even Portuguese culture despite initial hostilities. 103.252.201.176 (talk) 01:52, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

- Yusuf (I wasn’t logged in, I apologise). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yusufalhindi (talk • contribs) 01:53, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Death date

@Min968 Thanks for the clarification on the date. I would like to look into the sources on this, since I am also looking into Chinese calendar conversion and I am curious about how the different sources arrived at their dates. Would it be possible for you to quote the parts of the Ming Shi and Ming Shilu that give the date of his death? Toadspike [Talk] 14:26, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

Ming Wuzong Shilu, vol. 197: 正德十六年三月... 丙寅上崩於豹房先一夕上大漸惟太監陳敬蘇進二人在左右...

Ming Shi, vol. 16: 十六年春正月癸亥，改卜郊。... 三月癸丑朔，日有食之。庚申，改西官廳為威武團營。乙丑，大漸，諭司禮監曰：「朕疾不可為矣。其以朕意達皇太后，天下事重，與閣臣審處之。前事皆由朕誤，非汝曹所能預也。」丙寅，崩於豹房，年三十有一。

@Toadspike Both sources state that the Zhengde Emperor died on the Bingyin day [14th day] of the third month of the 16th year of the Zhengde era, which, when converted to the Western calendar, would be 20 April 1521. Min968 (talk) 14:52, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

Mingshi jishi benmo, vol. 49: 三月十四日丙寅，上以疾崩於豹房。Min968 (talk) 15:16, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

@Min968 This is very curious. I have now checked Volume 7 of the Cambridge History, the main volume for Ming political history and from which Volume 8 likely cribbed this date. It says, on page 436, "...he died in his private palace on the night of 19 April 1521, at the age of twenty-nine." I have checked the source these two volumes used to convert dates, A Synchronic Chinese-Western Daily Calendar, and it has (on page 181) the correct conversion of Bingyin day, third month to 20 April 1521. So it is not a conversion error, and since the date is two digits off as opposed to just one I doubt it's a typo.

The quotes you gave above state clearly that he died on the Bingyin day, but both mention that he got seriously ill the day before (the Yichou day), and this is also the day on which his last words were recorded. The Dictionary of Ming Biography also lists his death on the 20th. I think it makes most sense for us to list his death date as 20 April, but it is very interesting that the authors of the Cambridge History (in this case James Geiss) seem to have made a deliberate editorial decision to write that he died the day before, and this may be worth a footnote. (I read this as implicitly arguing his death was confirmed the following day, but really he was already dead.) Toadspike [Talk] 12:01, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

GA review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This review is transcluded from Talk:Zhengde Emperor/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Min968 (talk · contribs) 14:52, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

Reviewer: Векочел (talk · contribs) 20:04, 26 May 2025 (UTC)

I will start this later. Векочел (talk) 20:04, 26 May 2025 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable, as shown by a source spot-check.

   a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

• Footnote 5: For example, once in a drunken state, he asked Yu Yong for his daughter, known for her beauty. Instead, Yu brought a girl from the neighborhood and resigned in favor of his son, to avoid being caught in a deceit... Other times, he pursued the wives of his officers, and was even charmed by the sister of a certain officer, who was already married and pregnant. Is this a quotation? If so, please indicate. Otherwise, the ellipsis (...) should be removed.
• Under Prince of Anhua rebellion: By 30 May, the prince was captured a pro-government general, who had apparently joined the uprising. Please indicate whether the prince had captured a pro-government general or had been captured by a pro-government general.
• Southern tour section: The sheer number of women was overwhelming, leading to overcrowding and lack of resources, resulting in cases of malnutrition and even starvation. I would suggest removing sheer and even.
• In the Legacy section, there is a sentence reading After the Zhengde Emperor's death, his private life had significant consequences, as a dispute arose over the status of the new emperor's parents. Could you explain what the Zhengde Emperor's personal life had to do with his successor's parents?

Векочел (talk) 01:14, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

@Векочел The above points have been edited. Min968 (talk) 03:30, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

• Excellent. I am passing it. Векочел (talk) 03:52, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Age discrepancy?

The lead and infobox says he was born on October 26, but the early life section says November 14? Is there a reason for this? I was planning to add him to Wikipedia's selected anniversaries. Pinging GA nominator and reviewer as they probably have more insight, @Min968 and Векочел: jolielover♥talk 13:05, 17 November 2025 (UTC)