Talk:Yan Song

Requested move 6 July 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved as proposed. SSTflyer 02:27, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

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Yan Song (Ming dynasty) → Yan Song – WP:TWODABS, no need for a dab page. The Ming dynasty grand councilor is clearly WP:PRIMARYTOPIC with respect to long-term encyclopedic significance. Timmyshin (talk) 02:42, 6 July 2016 (UTC) --Relisting. Eventhorizon51 ^(talk) 13:10, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

• Support. The Ming dynasty personality get 540 views a day compared to 164 for the footballer. Gulangyu (talk) 11:43, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

GA review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Yan Song/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Min968 (talk · contribs) 16:00, 15 August 2025 (UTC)

Reviewer: Векочел (talk · contribs) 22:56, 15 August 2025 (UTC)

Will start this shortly. Векочел (talk) 22:56, 15 August 2025 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable, as shown by a source spot-check.

   a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Source check

• Dardess (2016), pp. 150–151. In 1540, Yan Shifan also oversaw the construction of a new extensive family residence in his native region, YuanzhouPrefecture, which was located 40 kilometers away from his hometown of Fenyi.
  • In 1540, flush with money he said he received over the years as gifts fromJiajing, Yan Song decided to build a new home, or estate really, for himself back in Jiangxi. His old home in Fenyi was too flood prone, he said, so hecreated a new one from scratch at the west wall of Yuanzhou, the prefecturalcapital, about twenty-five miles east. There lay a large vacant plot, whichYan extended by filling in an adjacent pond and buying out several commoners, who were, he said, very glad to sell him their homes. His son, Yan Shifan, put in charge of the construction, was under strict orders not toimpose private labor service on commoners or ask local government for itshelp. An avenue led in to the estate. In it were living quarters, an ancestralhall, and a library with a separate alcove to shelve all the poems, edicts, andmessages he’d received from Jiajing’s hand. At Yan’s request, the mainbuildings were given names by Jiajing himself. There was a pleasure garden,with rocks, trees, and another hall, this one for Yan to retire to in his old age. (That he was never able to do; and not long after his death in disgrace,the whole estate was confiscated and fell to ruin.)
• Dardess (2016), p. 5. In late 1540, the gathering of 110,000 Ming soldiers in Guangxi Province alarmed Mạc Thái Tông.
  • In 1540, a Ming army of some 110,000 assembled on the Guangxi-Anam frontier,ready to march. The threat looked serious. Harsh terms were extended to Mac Dang-dung. Hecapitulated. Crawling barefoot before the seated Ming authority, he presented them copies ofhis tax registers and other documents, ceded some disputed border territory, and agreed to thenominal downgrading of his country from guo to native chieftaincy (dutongshisi).
• Von Glahn (1996), pp. 114–116. Despite this, Japan had a high demand for Chinese goods, particularly silk. In the 1530s, new silver deposits were discovered and Chinese mining techniques were introduced, giving Japan the financial means to afford larger imports from China.
• Yao (2003), pp. 795–796. He was not dismissed from civil service until 1540, when the emperor deemed some of his commentaries on the Book of Rites to be indirect criticisms of his policies.
  • @Векочел: Since this document file of mine is currently corrupted, I will remove this section from the article. Min968 (talk) 05:28, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
• Geiss (1998), p. 484. Despite facing numerous political crises and challenges, Yan Song managed to navigate them by delegating decision-making and responsibility to the appropriate ministries and offices; thus, the Ministry of Rites was responsible for handling matters related to the Mongols, while the Ministry of War dealt with their expulsion. Yan Song only retained control over personnel matters and occasionally policy decisions.
  • From 1549 until his demise in 1562, Yen Sung controlled the grand secretariat. He made certain that his colleagues lacked influence, and he deferredto the emperor's wishes in even the most trivial matters. In March 1549, forexample, he referred the selection of other grand secretaries to the emperor,stating that he dared not propose a decision. The emperor appreciated thesegestures, and Yen tried to accommodate him whenever possible.He managed to retain his position through a decade of crises by referringdecisions to other people, either to ministers or to the emperor himself.When Altan beseiged Peking in 1550 and demanded trading privileges,Yen referred the matter to the minister of rites, who was technicallyresponsible for tribute arrangements. After the Mongols had withdrawn, helet the responsibility for the disaster fall on the minister of war, who had infact been acting at his direction.

Prose

• "It was not until 1505, at the age of thirty-eight, that he succeeded in the metropolitan examination." He was born in 1480, so wouldn't he be 25 in 1505?
  • Done.
• "He had the support of Xia Yan, who served as minister of rites from 1531 to 1537 and was later appointed grand secretary in 1536." Specify the province where Xia Yan served as minister of rites and the number of ministers of rites there could be at one time.
  • Done.
• "The emperor also honored and presented gifts to Grand Secretaries Xia Yan and Zhai Luan for organizing war preparations, and to Yan Song and Guo Xun for their constructive proposals." What were Yan Song's proposals?
  • For specialpraise in settling the Annam troubles, Jiajing singled out Chief Grand Secretary Xia Yan for planning mobilization but refraining from invading, GrandSecretary Chai Luan for aiding Xia in that, and Marquis Guo Xun and Minister of Rites Yan Song for their constructive contributions. All were rewardedwith gifts of silver and cloth. Further rewards and promotions went to the keyofficials on the China-Annam border.
• "Japan posed a significant challenge for Ming authorities, who cut off diplomatic relations with the country following the Ningbo incident in 1523." Explain why Japan was such an issue for Ming China.
  • Fixed.
• "In 1537—38, due to intense competition, these essays had become excessively wordy and contained unorthodox views and unwarranted criticism of state ceremonies and security policies." What was the accepted or dominant philosophy within the Ming bureaucracy?
  • Done.
• "The handling of petitions and disputes among princes of the imperial family was a delicate matter that required careful consideration." Could you provide a few more sentences of explanation about the government's response to petitions and disputes among the Ming imperial princes?
  • As with the review of Xia Yan’s work in the Rites Ministry, space constraintsdiscourage anything more than a brief review of other matters that piled on Yan Song’s desk. Handling some twenty complicated disputes and pleasgenerated by the princedoms demanded in each case careful adjudication and resolution.
• "He pointed out that past experiences had proven these claims to be fraudulent." Could you give a specific instance where alchemists had offered fraudulent potions?
  • Fixed.
• "In conflicts with the Mongols in the 1550s and pirates on the southeastern coast, Yan Song preferred a diplomatic approach, seeking compromise and negotiation." Does the source, Dardess (2016), p. 4, describe other officials seeking a violent response against the Mongols?
  • The third, “autumn” phase of Jiajing’s long reign featured lassitude andcomplacency under the increasingly corrupt guidance of Chief Grand Secretary Yan Song. Zhang Fujing had been a hard warrior in a righteous cause—sincere, austere, and enormously erudite—and Jiajing felt close to him. XiaYan was brilliant and energetic but a bon vivant, easily bored, and insouciant. Jiajing was impressed by him but never felt close to him. Yan Songwormed his way into the ruler’s favor by his attentive diligence and his warmembrace of Jiajing’s turn to religious Daoism and all its special prayers andrituals, which his rival Xia Yan, for all his brilliance, failed to see the needfor. Serious surges of violence along the coast and northern frontier in the1550s elicited from Yan Song a flaccid policy of negotiation and compromise. Yet he enjoyed the longest tenure of any Ming chief grand secretary—1548 to 1562, fourteen years.

I am satisfied with the work on this article and will pass it. Векочел (talk) 12:23, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.