Talk:Wading bird

"Wading bird" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Wading bird has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 November 29 § Wading bird(s) until a consensus is reached. Cremastra ‹ u — c › 16:41, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Article title

The disambiguating "(American)" in this article title makes it look like this is going to be an article about American waders. I came here from the flamingo article and initially thought the link had brought me to the wrong place. Wading bird would seem like a better title for this page. That redirect, and Wading birdsWading birds, already seem to constitute the majority of links into this page. I'm not trying to change an MOS:ENGVAR and I would be very happy for this article to retain a North American name if there's a good one, but I don't think it can have a name that implies the subject is American when it describes birds found across the globe. Mgp28 (talk) 12:32, 15 November 2025 (UTC)

Reading the "redirect for discussion" conversation on Wading bird, it seems there is already some support for moving this page to that title so I'll start a requested move discussion so it can be discussed more formally. Mgp28 (talk) 12:38, 15 November 2025 (UTC)

Requested move 15 November 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. In addition to a numerical consensus of !votes, the majority of participants agree that the page should be moved because the content contains information on Wading birds globally, and therefore the disambiguator doesn't make sense. (closed by non-admin page mover) - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 17:32, 3 December 2025 (UTC)

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Wader (American) → Wading bird – The disambiguating "(American)" in this article title makes it look like this is going to be an article about American waders, but the subject of the article is wading birds as they are found globally. The redirects Wading bird (and Wading birdsWading birds) already facilitate most of the links coming into this page so I think moving this article to that title would reflect how these birds are already being described in articles. Previous discussion at Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2025_January_14#Wading_bird(s) suggested some support for such a move so I would like to suggest it formally and see if there is a consensus. Mgp28 (talk) 12:45, 15 November 2025 (UTC)

Pinging participants of the redirects discussion: @Cremastra, Somatochlora, Shhhnotsoloud, Myrealnamm, Clovermoss, Pppery, The Bushranger, and Jay. Mgp28 (talk) 12:52, 15 November 2025 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Birds notified. Mgp28 (talk) 13:08, 15 November 2025 (UTC)

• I didn't have an opinion at the RfD except to start this RM. I agree that the current title is a poor one and I support the move. Jay 💬 15:25, 15 November 2025 (UTC)
• Support. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 18:11, 15 November 2025 (UTC)
• Support per nom, as Wading bird seems to be the term more commonly used worldwide. Myrealnamm (💬Let's talk · 📜My work) 22:32, 15 November 2025 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Not involved in the redirects discussion, but I would like to provide my input anyway: the current title is indeed weird and also inaccurate (it's talking about the bird in the United States and Canada). Thanks, 1isall (he/him) (talk | contribs) 01:17, 16 November 2025 (UTC)

• Weak oppose. The problem is distinguishing between wader (UK/global usage, referring to part of Charadriiformes), and wader (American usage, referring to parts of Pelecaniformes, Ciconiiformes, etc.). I'm not convinced the suggested new page title is the best way to do this. Would it be better to have just one page as a disambig, including both definitions, and with a simple list of the birds involved in the two definitions, but not more? - MPF (talk) 23:11, 16 November 2025 (UTC)

  I came to this page from Flamingo, interested in wading birds as a group. The part of the article that talks about flamingos being closely related to grebes and hamerkops being related to pelicans is the kind of content I was after. Some sort of disambiguation list is probably useful, but the content on this page also needs to go somewhere. I'm not fixed on wading bird being the best possible title, but I don't see that we can use Wader (American) to describe a group birds that includes members in Africa, Asia, Australia and Europe.

  It might make sense also to rename Wader to Shorebird to avoid using the ambiguous term for either article (equivalent to the apartment/flat example at WP:NCDAB), then move the disambiguation page Waders to Wader so that it's obvious if people link to wader by mistake. The disambiguation page could then be updated to something like User:Mgp28/Wader. Would that satisfy your concerns? Mgp28 (talk) 18:44, 17 November 2025 (UTC)

  I would argue that 'wading bird' (for Wader (American)) and 'shorebird' (for Wader) for would likely be the overall common names in English, so this would sound like a reasonable solution to me, - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 21:26, 17 November 2025 (UTC)

  Shorebird has strong Americanism connotations in Britain, and would likely result in pressure for an engvar change on the page; moving wader there I would say thus contravenes MOS:RETAIN of keeping the established engvar. Agree though that wader (American) is far from ideal, when it really means "wader (American terminology)" or "wader (American language)" . . . but that's obviously too cumbersome to use as a page title - MPF (talk) 02:03, 18 November 2025 (UTC)

  Might just be a case for "Wader" / "Wading bird" with hatnotes. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 03:15, 18 November 2025 (UTC)

• Oppose The current title isn't great, but the proposed title, as well as the alternative discussed above, also seems problematic. 162 etc. (talk) 00:04, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
  • @162 etc.: The thing is - and I'm not sure this has been mentioned yet, but it should be - the current title isn't functionally used at all in America to refer to birds. "Waders" here refers to an article of clothing. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 00:24, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

    How do people in North America refer to these birds then? Is there a title that removes the confusion without impacting MPF's ENGVAR concerns? (I don't feel I agree with the concerns as I think that if a consensus agreed to change the variety used for these articles that would be acceptable under WP:RETAIN's "the change reduces ambiguity" condition but if we can avoid them that would be even better.) Mgp28 (talk) 12:02, 1 December 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

• To answer the question above belatedly, since I missed this in my watchlist: in North America we refer to these as "wading birds". - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 02:24, 4 December 2025 (UTC)

Charadriiformes

I understand that not all shorebirds are wading birds, but the definition in this article gives wading birds as "long-legged wading birds in semi-aquatic ecosystems". Shouldn't at least some of the Charadriiformes, for example the stilts, be considered wading birds under this definition?

I get that plovers will probably not make it into this article, but if we are differentiating by leg length, then I recommend adding these shorebirds into this article:

• godwit
• curlew
• stilt
• greenshank
• whimbrel
• crab-plover
• avocet
• redshank

Royal Cannon 2630 (talk) 06:38, 8 December 2025 (UTC)

It's not just leg length; it's also a number of other things, including taxonomy. None of these species are referred to as "wading birds" in North America. They're all referred to as "sandpipers" for the smaller ones and "shorebirds" for the larger ones; even avocets and stilts (often found in marshes and not on the shore literally) are "shorebirds" instead of "wading birds". I suppose some might group them as such when they appear with more 'traditional' wading birds, but in common useage none of these would be considered to be wading birds by Canadian or American birders. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 07:14, 8 December 2025 (UTC)

I see. Thank you. Royal Cannon 2630 (talk) 08:15, 8 December 2025 (UTC)