Talk:Vindelev Hoard

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. You can locate your hook here. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Earth605 talk 07:20, 18 November 2025 (UTC)

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• Article history

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• ... that the oldest known reference to the Norse god Odin was found on a bracteate in the Vindelev Hoard?

• Source: https://videnskab.dk/kultur-samfund/verdens-aeldste-odin-fundet-i-vindelev/

• • ALT1: ... that some of the gold pieces in the Vindelev Hoard were damaged by plowing before they were discovered?” Source: Tys-tys om findested for guldskat holdt i syv timer: Her er findestedet på et markant sted i landskabet
  • Reviewed:

Created by DraconicDark (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

DraconicDark (talk) 20:44, 25 September 2025 (UTC).

• @DraconicDark: This article looks to be in mostly very good shape. It was recently translated from the German Wikipedia article, which met their equivalent of a Good Article review. No issues with copyright violations, plagiarism, Original Research, NPOV violations, or other policy concerns that would be a dealbreaker for DYK. This is the editor's first DYK so no review is required for QPQ.
  I do see several issues for DYK guidelines that are all fixable. First, the article uses a mixture of inline citations and general references. WP:DYKCITE says that body content outside of the lead and other summaries "must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph". So for example, the section Vindelev Hoard#Discovery is mostly fine, but the source for "The ensemble is of exceptional archaeological importance. No other saucer-sized gold discs like those from Vindelev have been found to date. The craftsmanship of the jewelry also surpasses that of other finds." is currently not cited inline (I assume it is one of the general references at the bottom of the page). To run on DYK, sections like that will need to be followed with an inline citation. The two hook facts "should be cited no later than the end of the sentence in which they appear to meet WP:DYKHFC. For example, the plowing citation looks reliable and backs up the hook fact, but it is currently only a general reference and not cited inline. Finally, the hook and article should both match the source regarding the "oldest known reference" to Odin. Right now the article hedges with "may be".
  So overall this is nearly there and already quite solid. When you're ready for me to take another look, or if you have any questions, feel free to {{ping}} me here. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 22:56, 28 September 2025 (UTC)

@DraconicDark: Please address the above.--Launchballer 22:56, 5 October 2025 (UTC)

@DraconicDark: I will close this in 24 hours if I don't see some action on this.--Launchballer 00:28, 13 October 2025 (UTC)

@Launchballer: Apologies for the late response, I have had a busy last couple of weeks and haven't had a chance to get to this. I have started working on it now, and should hopefully get it done this week. DraconicDark (talk) 16:05, 13 October 2025 (UTC)

@DraconicDark: ALT1 now has the same citation to verify it here and in the article. I suspect this is the more likely of the two to be promoted as the other is a superlative hook that could be disproven by some earlier artifact. The original hook can be verified by the source, but if it's chosen, the article should be tweaked to use the same level of certainty in the language. There are still some passages missing an inline citation in the article. Let me know if you need help finding sources, or finding the places that still need citations, or anything like that. After those passages are cited, I'll approve this, and it can be promoted, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 06:53, 27 October 2025 (UTC)

@Rjjiii: Thank you for your continued feedback. I would appreciate if you could tell me which places still need citations, since a specific list would be helpful. I have been able to find most of the sources that were only general references, except for the Danish print source at the end of the Bibliography section (the chapter from Magt og Guld – Vikinger i Øst), which I could prove the existence of but the book does not appear to exist as an ebook. DraconicDark (talk) 18:37, 27 October 2025 (UTC)

@DraconicDark: I've added 10 citation needed tags throughout the article. The criteria for DYK are slightly higher than WP:V, which only requires citations in 4 cases. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 21:58, 27 October 2025 (UTC)

@Rjjiii: An update: I have gone through and added citations for some of the tags. Most of the remaining ones should be doable, as they either should be verifiable from the general refs or are trivialities I can remove if I can't cite them, but there's one section that is giving me a bit of trouble with finding citations. I suspect it may be from the book I was having trouble finding. DraconicDark (talk) 20:36, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

@DraconicDark: Thanks for looking into it! I have cited that section but you're welcome to double-check me as I'm not finding sources in English. Feel free to reach out, either to me or on talk pages, if any of the other passages are troublesome. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 01:32, 29 October 2025 (UTC)

@DraconicDark: There are still two sentences missing an inline citation. If you either find a source for those, remove them, or revise them to use a different source, I'll go ahead and approve this. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 02:32, 5 November 2025 (UTC)

@DraconicDark: I've commented out the last couple of sentences that still needed a citation. If you or any other editor finda a citation for them, feel free to uncomment them back into the article. I'm approving ALT1. The original hook isn't quite in the article. The article and sources seem to support something like:

• ALT2: ... that what may be the earliest known reference to the Norse god Odin was found on a bracteate in the Vindelev Hoard?

If you would be interested in the above ↑ or something similar as a hook, I think that would be fine. If not, you can strike it or ask me to strike it. The article is in really good shape and the ALT1 hook looks good, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 03:12, 13 November 2025 (UTC)

@Rjjiii: ALT1 works for me. Thanks for the review. DraconicDark (talk) 04:13, 13 November 2025 (UTC)

@Rjjiii and DraconicDark: I have just seen this, I think the Odin aspect is the most interesting. The English text is an interpretation of the runes, which I think solves the superlative problem. I have found a link to a journal article in NOWELE and added it to the references. What do you both think of

• ALT3: ... that the inscription on a bracteate in the Vindelev Hoard has been interpreted as the oldest known reference to the Norse god Odin?

• Source: https://www.jbe-platform.com/content/journals/10.1075/nowele.00074.ime quote "We interpret this sequence as the earliest written representation of the name of Óðinn."

TSventon (talk) 22:51, 16 November 2025 (UTC)

Translation of German references

@Rjjiii and DraconicDark: hi, I have noticed some problems with the automatic translation of the German references. I think I can fix them in a few days, but I will probably leave the duplicated references.

• The German citation template "Literatur" seems to cover books and journals and uses "Sammelwerk" for names of journals and titles of books in a series. The automatic translation has translated "Literatur" as "cite book" and ignores "Sammelwerk". (fixed)

details

The affected journals are

• |Titel=The World’s largest Gold Bracteate: A brief presentation of the Migration Period gold hoard from Vindelev, Denmark|Sammelwerk=The European Archaeologist
• |Titel=Guldskatten fra Vindelev – The Vindelev Gold Hoard|Sammelwerk=Fund&Fortid
• |Titel=A-brakteaterne fra Vindelev|Sammelwerk= Skalk
• |Titel=C-brakteaterne fra Vindelev|Sammelwerk= Skalk

The affected books are

• |Titel=Buchstabenmagie und Alphabetzauber. Zu den Inschriften der Goldbrakteaten und ihrer Funktion als Amulette|Sammelwerk=Die Goldbrakteaten der Völkerwanderungszeit – Auswertung und Neufunde |Reihe= Ergänzungsbände zum Reallexikon der Germanischen Altertumskunde
• |Titel=Die Bilderwelt der völkerwanderungszeitlichen Goldbrakteaten als religionsgeschichtliche Quelle|Sammelwerk=Altertumskunde – Altertumswissenschaft – Kulturwissenschaft: Erträge und Perspektivennach 40 Jahren Reallexikon der Germanischen Altertumskunde |Reihe= Ergänzungsbände zum Reallexikon der Germanischen Altertumskunde
• |Titel=Machttaten Odins. Die Chiffrenwelt der Brakteaten und die Methoden ihrer Auswertung|Sammelwerk=Die Goldbrakteaten der Völkerwanderungszeit – Auswertung und Neufunde |Reihe= Ergänzungsbände zum Reallexikon der Germanischen Altertumskunde

• Many of the authors in the Literatur templates were missing, I have replaced most of them.
• The German templates use Autor, English Wikipedia prefers first and last (names) separately
• The citations give pages in the format "pp. 475–523, S. 488.", where S. marks an individual page. I suggest the use of {{rp}} to replace S.
• German titles were not tagged with |language=de (done)
• The Bibliography is duplicated in the references, apart from the book Magt og Guld – Vikinger i Øst. I suggest merging the bibliography into the references.
• Translated titles would be useful for all foreign titles (not an error)
• There are duplicated references (not an error and fixing is not essential)

TSventon (talk) 23:46, 16 November 2025 (UTC)

For the page names, I've just converted "S." to "p." to make them more clear, and am not opposed to using {{rp}} for specific page numbers. I've removed the bibliography section. All but one of these are cited in the body. There is one passage commented out, so I've copied the remaining general reference (the German article relied more on general references not cited inline). I'll open up all the citations now and see which ones have an English title. Thanks for going through these, TSventon. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 02:37, 17 November 2025 (UTC)

@TSventon: I am now done for a bit. Only 2 sources had English titles. The "author" parameters that contained a full name or multiple names are now broken out into separate "first" and "last" name parameters for better consistency. DraconicDark, you're welcome to double-check me; also what did you think of the hook idea at the DYK nom? Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 03:19, 17 November 2025 (UTC)