Talk:Vermilion Bird

Is Fenghuang one of the four celestial guardians?

According to this source: http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/ho-oo-phoenix.shtml `` In Japan, the term “Suzaku” is translated as “Red Bird” or “Vermillion Chinese Phoenix.” In both Japan and China, the symbolism of the red bird seems nearly identical to or merged with that of the mythological Phoenix. At this site, I consider the Suzaku and the Phoenix to be the same magical creature, although I am not certain if this is entirely true. Scholar Derek Walters (see resources) says the Phoenix was supplanted (replaced) by the Red Bird, for the Red Bird more accurately reflected the astronomical iconography associated with the southern lunar mansions. ``

The symbolism of the Chinese Phoenix (Fèng Huáng) is strikingly similar to the symbolism of the mythological Red Bird (Chn. = Zhū Qiǎo 朱雀 or Zhū Niǎo 朱鳥), also of Chinese lore. In Japan, the Red Bird is pronounced Suzaku (same Chinese characters). I believe the Red Bird is the same creature as the Phoenix, although I may be wrong. The Red Bird is one of four legendary Chinese creatures guarding the four cosmic directions (Red Bird - S, Dragon - E, Tortoise - N, and the Tiger - W). The four appear during China’s Warring States period (476 BC - 221 BC), and were frequently painted on the walls of early Chinese and Korean tombs to ward off evil spirits. For more details on Phoenix lore in China, please click here. 159.100.84.247 (talk) 15:45, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Asterism

I know many of our sources on the topic are similar messes of random list bric-a-brac but the article lead could do a much better job simply clearly saying the Vermilion Bird of the South was simply a collection of all the principle asterisms in Chinese astrology and astronomy in the southern quadrant of the sky. See particularly the clear treatment and illustrations (p. 329) in the treatment of China in

• Kelley, David H.; et al. (2005), Exploring Ancient Skies: An Encyclopedic Survey of Archaeoastronomy, New York: Springer Science+Business Media.

It also clarifies why there are only four 'direction guardians' despite Chinese culture having had five directions since remote antiquity. — LlywelynII 15:14, 28 July 2025 (UTC)