Talk:Third gender

Wiki Education assignment: Gender and Sexuality in World Civilizations I

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 27 September 2022 and 10 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Delendaaest (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Delendaaest (talk) 20:32, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

Okay to remove sentence with no citation?

The introduction paragraph has the sentence "The [third gender] concept is most likely to be embraced in the modern LGBT or queer subcultures," which is situated between sentences about broader western culture and scholarship. There is no citation for this sentence and I haven't found any sources confirming this personally. Is this connection primarily to nonbinary/genderqueer identity instead of third gender? If so, the wording of the sentence as-is could be more specific, or it may be better to delete this entirely. -Delendaaest (talk) 19:39, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

The relevant section, Third gender#Transgender people and third gender, refers to non-binary or genderqueer identities, so this is presumably was meant. Newimpartial (talk) 19:46, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

@Delendaaest:, I'd be cautious about changing anything in the WP:LEAD. Changes should be made first to the body of the article, and then the lead can be modified to summarize changes to the body. Mathglot (talk) 19:58, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

If the sentence is referring to Third gender#Transgender people and third gender is it okay to specify the connection to non-binary and genderqueer identities in this sentence? Delendaaest (talk) 20:05, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

If it's sourced in the body, you can summarize it in the lead, if it's one of the most important points that belongs there. Not everything needs to be in the lead, so it's a bit of a judgment call. Mathglot (talk) 20:35, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Criticism section

@Delendaaest: Nice job on this new section. The Towle & Morgan (2002) GLQ article you found is a good one; I found this quote that might be representative of part of it: "The term third gender does not disrupt gender binarism; it simply adds another category (albeit a segregated, ghettoized category) to the existing two.". (There's a |quote= parameter in the {{Cite journal}} template that you could use to store the quote, if excerpting the quote in the new section doesn't seem to work.) For other users editing in this space, that source would be a good one for other, related articles; it is available in full text via TWL. Haven't had a chance to look at the your other source, yet, but good job so far. By the way: if you find other good sources, but don't need them to source specific content you add, feel free to add a citation for it to the § Further reading section, where interested editors might pick it up and use it. Mathglot (talk) 20:34, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion, I just added that quote in. Delendaaest (talk) 17:30, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Section: Modern societies without legal recognition

This is a slightly strange section in terms of organisation. There are instances of modern countries with legal recognition that have been included under this section. E.g. England - but using terms which are no longer used by people nowadays. Surely these and similar examples should be moved down under the History section. Following on from this, it seems a bit strange to divide up countries with and without legal recognition (the contents of each are actually quite different - with the former mostly describing legal precedents, while the latter describes actual identities found in these places)...Just seems a bit inconsistent to me. Or should the description of different identities from countries where it is legal be included into History? Thanks PitterPatter533 (talk) 17:07, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Unreliable Source Cleanup

Māhū

In both the third paragraph of the lead section and the second paragraph of Third gender#Transgender people and third gender, the māhū are referred to with the quote "person of indeterminate gender" attributed to a 13 year old article written by an author who is neither from Polynesia nor an expert on the region or third genders in Tate Etc., an arts magazine run by the Tate Britain Museum. This source is marked as , this quote is not present in the source article, and the claim being made is not supported by reliable sources nor the Māhū main article.

The quote should be removed, and the reliable sources listed in the Māhū main article should be used to attest to the Māhū existing as a third gender. These sources both refer to the Māhū not as being of indeterminate gender, but as having a liminal gender, a common term used in anthropological literature on the Māhū given the literal translation of "in the middle". Anthroqueer (talk) 02:06, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

Uranian

In the second paragraph of Third gender#Third gender and sexual orientation, the source for Uranian is a blog summary of a book on the subject. The source is marked as given the link to a blog summary, though the book itself is published by Masaryk University and is already listed as a reliable source on the Uranian main article. Third gender#Europe also mentions the Uranians but with no source listed.

The blog summary should be replaced with the book itself and the citation should be added to the Europe subsection as well.

I'm happy to make any of these changes myself but my previous attempt at cleaning up sources on this article was reverted. Anthroqueer (talk) 14:54, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Gender and Technoculture 320-03

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 January 2024 and 10 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Holland.blu (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Pangilinanh.

— Assignment last updated by Momlife5 (talk) 15:52, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Gender and Technoculture 320-01

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 January 2024 and 10 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Dochoa14 (article contribs). Peer reviewers: 240Daryl.

— Assignment last updated by Bbalicia (talk) 00:45, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Very long sentence

There's a sentence early in the article that needs to be shortened for readability and comprehension, but I'm not sure how best to do it. Anybody want to give it a shot? Here's the current version:

While mainstream Western scholars—notably anthropologists who have tried to write about the South Asian hijras or the Native American "gender variant" and two-spirit people—have often sought to understand the term "third gender" solely in the language of the modern LGBT community, other scholars—especially Indigenous scholars—stress that mainstream scholars' lack of cultural understanding and context has led to widespread misrepresentation of the people these scholars place in the third gender category, as well as misrepresentations of the cultures in question, including whether or not this concept actually applies to these cultures at all. Wafflewombat (talk) 12:48, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

Proposal: Developing a Visual Symbol for the Concept of "Third Gender"

At present, there is no widely recognized visual symbol representing the concept of "third gender" in its full cultural and ethnographic diversity. To address this gap, I propose initiating a discussion about creating a dedicated symbol for "third gender" that could be used in articles, infographics, and educational materials to more accurately reflect the topic.

Important criteria for such a symbol might include:

• Neutrality and universality
• No association with any specific culture, religion, or region
• Visual simplicity and recognizability
• No conflict with existing gender symbols (e.g., ♂, ♀, ⚧)

The development of such a symbol is not merely a technical task, but a conceptually sensitive one. Much will depend on who undertakes the design process — ideally, it should be interdisciplinary, involving contributors with backgrounds in gender studies, cultural anthropology, and visual design. If the idea gains interest within the community, we could explore possible formats — from an open design call to collaborative concept development.

To be honest, I’m not entirely sure where to begin or whom to approach regarding the development of such a symbol, which is why I’m reaching out here to the contributors of this article. If this is not the right place for this discussion, feel free to move it to a more appropriate venue. I appreciate any guidance or feedback. Skyskills (talk) 15:27, 10 September 2025 (UTC)

Isaac Asimov's "Gold" and "The Gods Themselves"

Surely the fact that the Isaac Asimov's Gen AI masterpiece isabout doing his three-gender shakespearean space opera after King Lear should qualify. It's the father of modern sci-fi here. Flubunga (talk) 23:23, 17 January 2026 (UTC)

The Image

Is there any chance Pape Moe (Mysterious Water) could be replaced by a different image? As it's uncomfortable as a Māʼohi, to visit the page due to the picture. ~2026-38453-58 (talk) 12:34, 7 July 2026 (UTC)