Talk:Teoyeo dialect

Teoyeo Dialect is spoken in municipality of Shantou, Guangdong Province, China.

Teoyeo Dialect is spoken in municipality of Shantou, Guangdong Province, China , hence it belongs to Swatow dialect, rather than Teochew dialect. 101.100.177.230 (talk) 01:40, 13 August 2025 (UTC)

Linguistic classification is not determined by administrative borders. Freelance Intellectual (talk) 08:41, 15 August 2025 (UTC)

Teoyeo dialect is spoken in a juristiction of Chaoyang, Shantou and in definition belonging to an administrator border called Shantou city aka "Swatow" or Swatow dialect which also belongs to a dialect called Southern Min.

That means Teoyeo dialect belongs to Southern Min, if you think it is Teochew then kindly provide an evidence and scientific research proofing that it belongs to Teochew, Would be great if you could find one.

"A third major language, Southern Min (Minnan), is spoken mostly along an eastern coastal area centred on Shantou (Swatow)."

quote from Britannica, https://www.britannica.com/topic/Southern-Min-language 101.100.177.230 (talk) 07:48, 18 August 2025 (UTC)

Naming Issue

Is there any other sources for Teoyeo? The source cited at the moment is too recent and may be influenced by some original search. Afaik 潮阳 is also spelled as Chaoyang in Postal Transliteration. And Teoyeo is not a commonname KaraageTimer (talk) 16:13, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

@KaraageTimer I've found this 1982 book which refers to "the Teoyeo district of Teochew", and this 2017 blog post which gives it as a variant of "Teo Yor". So usage predates the currently cited source, but we could still consider switching to a different name. Freelance Intellectual (talk) 22:15, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for the comment! I'm glad to see that the term Teoyeo is not a modern invention, but it is still not a common name. There are about 16000 results of "Chaoyang dialect" on Google, and only 404 for "Teoyeo dialect". Though the result may be influenced by 朝阳 in Liaoning or Beijing with the same pronunciation, most academic results of "Chaoyang dialect" refer to 潮阳话. KaraageTimer (talk) 00:01, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

Searching for "Chaoyang Teochew" would avoid getting confused with other Chaoyangs, and "Chaoyang Teochew" seems more common than "Teoyeo Teochew". It would be good to hear from QuestionableAnswers (talk · contribs), who started this article. Freelance Intellectual (talk) 11:23, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

Yeah but Teochew can also refer to Teochew people. The Chinese Academic may rarely use the term Teochew. Anyway let's ping @QuestionableAnswers KaraageTimer (talk) 14:04, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

I used Teoyeo rather than Chaoyang mostly for consistency with the names of other Southern Min lects (Hokkien, Teochew, rather than Fujian[ese], Chaozhou, etc), as in the source given in the article ("Reclassifying ISO 639-3 [nan]: ..."). There are other instances of Teoyeo or Teo Yeo for both the county and the dialect, mostly in Singaporen English, e.g.:

1: "We have so many dialects — Hokkien, Cantonese, Henghua, Teochew, Teoyeo — ..."

2: "The Teochew Poit Ip Huay Kuan members are from the Teochew districts of ..., Teo Yeo (潮阳), ..."

3: "Choa was born in the Teo Yeo (潮阳) district of the Teochew prefecture"

In academic usage, "Chaoyang" may be more frequent, but still it is not a widely covered topic (in English), and I see that Chinese scholars (writing in English) would also use terms like "Chaoshan" or "Min Nan" instead of the more established "Teochew" and "Hokkien". QuestionableAnswers (talk) 20:34, 6 September 2025 (UTC)

Was there any prior consensus on consistency in the naming conventions for topics related to Southern Min? I would appreciate if you could give me a link to this. Even if such a consensus exists, I believe it should be reconsidered in light of the scale of differences between Chaoyang dialect and Teoyeo Dialect.

WP:TITLE sets out five criteria, of which consistency is only one. I think Chaoyang Dialect is more appropriate in terms of Recognizability and Naturalness. As you mentioned, English content seldom covers this area; therefore, usage from mainland China and the academia (in English), which pay greater attention to it, should certainly carry more weight.

I also agree that Teochew and Hokkien are more common in English, but for different examples we need separate discussions. (P.S. I do not consider Min Nan to be equivalent to Hokkien, but Quanzhang does.) KaraageTimer (talk) 18:32, 7 September 2025 (UTC)

Most of the hits for "Chaoyang dialect" (either Teoyeo or other Chaoㅤyangㅤs) I see on Google Books are not in the main text of the works, but in translated titles of cited sources (written in Mandarin), so it doesn't really add up to "recognizability". This subject is just not covered enough in English.

There are a few recent publications specifically on this lect (e.g. by Zhang Jingfen or Huang Qiye) that use "Chaoyang" (along with "Min Nan", "Chaoshan" and other pinyin-derived spellings), but there is also a history of usage of Teoyeo (or other variations of the native name: there is Tioyio Association of Siam in Thailand or Teoh Yeonh Huai Kuan in Singapore) by Teoyeo natives in Southeast Asia.

So all in all, the name "Teoyeo" 1) has some history of usage (even if not as much as "Hokkien" and "Teochew"), 2) is consistent with other article titles, 3) is less ambiguous (at least the Beijing's Chaoyang may also require an article on its dialect). QuestionableAnswers (talk) 04:51, 19 September 2025 (UTC)

We all acknowledge that the Chaoyang dialect is a topic rarely addressed in English-language materials, so naturally Chaoyang is much more commonly used than Teoyeo. Although Teoyeo is indeed an existing spelling, it is seldom used to describe the dialect, as our search above has shown (just as the terms Teochew and Hokkien themselves can refer to the language). Thus, even though Chaoyang dialect mainly appears in the titles and abstracts of Chinese academic papers， where such translations are required by academic convention in China, it is in practice the only English usage covering this field, and it is consistent with the modern administrative division name. If one day an article about the dialect of Beijing or Liaoning is needed, we can handle disambiguation then (at present even zh has no such article).

In addition, since you have provided so many different spellings of Teoyeo, which one is more commonly used in the English-speaking world? KaraageTimer (talk) 18:37, 19 September 2025 (UTC)