Talk:Tarifit

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Requested move 13 February 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: This is a case of WP:NOGOODOPTIONS as no one favors the current name, while opinions are split between "Tarifit" and "Rifian language". I am going to close as the former as editors have cited authoritative English-language sources using it. (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 23:40, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

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Riffian language → Rifian languageRifian language – I think of the two valid English language spellings the single F version matching the Rifian language spelling makes it the more valid English language spelling TheRifian (talk) 16:21, 13 February 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. Andrewa (talk) 18:44, 25 February 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. ~ Aseleste_{charge-parity}^time 15:00, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

• Would be WP:CONSISTENT with Talk:Rifians#Requested move 25 January 2021. However, "Tarifit" is very common in sources and is the one Ethnologue and Britannica use. – Thjarkur (talk) 19:49, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
  • Tarifit is not an English language word. TheRifian (talk) 21:25, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
    • It is if it's used in English language sources such as the Ethnologue. Andrewa (talk) 18:44, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
      • English language sources using it doesn't necessarily make it an English language word as they could just be using the actual Rifian language word. TheRifian (talk) 19:39, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

• Relisting comment: See here for the history of Tarifit (archived there in case we are about to overwrite it with another move) and especially the many moves this already indicates. Hopefully this RM will lead to stability. Andrewa (talk) 18:44, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

• Seems okay - NGRAMS are basically tied except for a weird surge in the 1930s. Red Slash 23:39, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
  • Exactly so my argument is that the single F version being the correct spelling in the language itself is the tiebreaker. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheRifian (talk • contribs) 01:12, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
• Weak support The references cited so far don't overwhelmingly favour this spelling, but it doesn't make sense to keep this here if we already have Rifians. 162.208.168.92 (talk) 16:03, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
  • Keeping in mind that both being equally common in the English language means it is ambiguous, when you take into account that the single F version is more common in/amongst the Rifian language itself/the Rifian people themselves (Which is/are surely the authority on the spelling of what it's/they're called), that makes it decisive. TheRifian (talk) 22:31, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

That's not how an exonym works. It's also not how WP:PLACE works. That being said, I don't think the other options proposed are overwhelmingly preferable. 162.208.168.92 (talk) 15:56, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

I'm not saying that's how an exonym works - I'm saying it is an exonym based on how an exonym does work anyway (This alone makes it equally as accurate as the double F option) and it is the closest of all the exonyms to the endonym as well (It being an exonym along with this in addition makes it more accurate than the double F option). And as for the Wikipedia naming convention guideline, it is if it's a modern widely accepted English language name. In fact I'd make the argument that it's also in favour of the guideline because it would help disambiguate it from this Riffian. It also matches the place. TheRifian (talk) 22:48, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

• Comment someone can go ahead and move this, there is no minimum participation requirement for RMs Red Slash 06:46, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

• Relisting comment: (Non-administrator comment) While I think closing this as moved to Rifian language is in line with consensus as there looks like there is no real objection to the rename (For Þjarkur, it looks like they suggested Tarifit but was not strictly against the rename to Rifian language per wp:consistent.), it would be better if participants address Tarifit as an alternative destination so that the resulted title can be more stable if the request is not closed as no consensus. ~ Aseleste_{charge-parity}^time 15:00, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
• Move to Tarifit per Þjarkur. Since it has been demonstrated that high-quality English sources such as Britannica prefer the "native" name Tarifit, there is little reason for us to use a different term. BBC News have also used Tarifit so the assertion that it is not English is not correct.  — Amakuru (talk) 16:45, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

As I said - English sources using it doesn't necessarily make it an English word as they could just be explicitly using the actual Rifian word instead. Especially when you take into account that English sources do also use Rifian, which we do know for sure is an English word. TheRifian (talk) 21:53, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Rif

ⴰⵔⵔⵉⴼ 41.250.208.68 (talk) 15:43, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 9 January 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Given the prior RM was contentious, more participation is required to move this page, however, after two relists, there is still no discussion on this topic. (closed by non-admin page mover) TiggerJay (talk) 02:28, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

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Tarifit → Riffian languageRiffian language – This would keep it in line with other Berber languages' titles, e.g. Shilha language, Kabyle language, Shawiya language, etc. It would also serve as a good compromise for the two different spellings of the endonym, Tarifit and Tarifiyt. Lankdadank (talk) 15:30, 9 January 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. Fathoms Below (talk) 01:24, 17 January 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 03:44, 24 January 2025 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Algeria, WikiProject Morocco, and WikiProject Languages have been notified of this discussion. Fathoms Below (talk) 01:25, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

• Comment See the 2021 RM discussion above, which resulted in the current title. 162 etc. (talk) 21:33, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Native name

@Skitash do you have any precedent to stand on to include the Arabic name as a native name of the language in the info box? I'm not denying that most Riffians speak Arabic as a second language, but as far as I am aware you only consider what the language calls itself a native name. Besides, the Arabic name is already included in the introduction. Lankdadank (talk) 16:14, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

Given that Tarifit is also written in Arabic, I believe it would make sense to keep its name in Arabic. Also, Template:Infobox language states that the parameter can be used for a "native name, or a second alternative name." Skitash (talk) 16:53, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

Yes, but you didn't just write its native name in the Arabic script, which I would have no problem with if you found good sources to support them, you wrote the name in the Arabic language. I also assume that with a second alternative name what's meant is a second alternative native name, there already is an altname parameter. @ElijahUHC care to chime in? Lankdadank (talk) 06:14, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

Hello! Yes, I can see that-it is written not just in the Arabic script, but actually in Arabic. While yes Arabic script has historically been used for Tarifit, its usage has declined in favor of Latin and Tifinagh scripts. Still, the Arabic script version should be included in the infobox for completeness.

That said, it’s important to note that the Tifinagh script is missing entirely, despite being official and widely used. Additionally, what’s currently shown as the "Arabic" version appears to be just the Arabic word, not a proper representation of the Tarifit name in Arabic script. This should be corrected and properly sourced. We need to ensure that the name is accurately rendered in Arabic script based on how it is actually written in Tarifit-which may require linguistic verification due to potential nuances in transcription. Added, of course, we must include the Tifinagh script as well, since it is the official script of Amazigh languages in Morocco and remains in active use in schools etc. ElijahUHC (talk) 08:11, 16 May 2025 (UTC)