Talk:Steve Bray

Was he ever a professional numismatist?

My contention is that there is no independent evidence that Bray was ever a professional numismatist. It's quite significant, because he seems to be of independent financial means, and people wonder how he achieved that. All the references that say he was a professional numismatist, are to press articles where journalists just report Bray's own claim, unchallenged. I have been asked to cite a reliable source. How can I give a reference to something that does not exist? I would have to list every trade directory for coin dealers and show that Bray has never been listed in any of them. I am asking for somebody to give evidence from an independent, reliable source that Bray was actually a professional numismatist, e.g. archived web page listing coins for sale, trade directory listing with his details and business address, or something similar. Then the Wiki page would be greatly improved, and I will admit that my concerns are unfounded. Thank you. 92.28.175.146 (talk) 16:01, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

A person describing themselves as a self-employed numismatist doesn't sound "unduly self-serving" to me, so seems allowable under WP:BLPSELFPUB if the only sources are the subject's own claim. It is not a regulated profession. --Lord Belbury (talk) 16:05, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

When you say "All the references that say he was a professional numismatist" which are they? The article currently has only one, The Irish Times here? Unfortunately your research would be WP:OR. We just have to follow reliable sources. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:07, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Ref 18 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/16/parliament-anti-brexit-protests-arron-banks says he is a numismatist. It cites https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42055521. Similarly Ref 47 https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/one-man-campaign-against-brexit-15059795

All this seems to be journalists accepting Bray's claim at face value, and then citing each other in a circular way.

Obviously he's not trying to pass himself off as being in a regulated profession. But I'm interested into how he achieved financial independence to allow him to devote all his time to protesting. Dealing in rare coins is a plausible way, but is there any actual evidence that Bray ever did it? 92.28.175.146 (talk) 16:22, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for those other sources. We generally have to accept what WP:RSs claim. If there were conflicting WP:RS claims, that cast some doubt, we could attribute e.g. "The Guardian claimed that .... while WalesOnline said..." Otherwise it's just our own WP:OR trying to ascertain where Bray made his money. Sorry, but Wikipedia is not investigative journalism. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:32, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Date of birth

Presumably his birth record at FreeBMD is this one, which gives his names as Steven Nicholas. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:18, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

SODEM documents at Companies House https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/11959485/filing-history state that his date of birth is in June 1969. Not September. 92.28.175.146 (talk) 16:27, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

A birth on 16 June would very likely be registered in the 3rd quarter, which is labelled "Sept". Martinevans123 (talk) 11:02, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

And that's why Wikipedia doesn't use WP:BLPPRIMARY sources. The Economist article is a secondary source that gives his birth month and year. --Lord Belbury (talk) 16:31, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Well, that's the only record listed by FreeBMD for any Steve Bray born in Cardiff between Jan 1968 and Dec 1970. Maybe it's a mistake, or maybe it was registered late. I thought the actual GRO birth records were the primary source. The usual reason for not using FreeBMD is that it's "staffed by volunteers without any editorial oversight"? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:42, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

This record at Companies House shows his full name to be Steven Nicholas Bray, so I have added that to the infobox. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:06, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Day of birth

DAY of birth 26th June https://www.facebook.com/SODEMLondon/posts/happy-birthday-steven-brayto-celebrate-im-posting-my-favourite-photo-of-stop-bre/2055196534785891/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 51.6.23.206 (talk) 12:41, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Facebook is not generally regarded as WP:RS. There are two existing sources, although The Economist is behind a paywall and The Standard is not explicit. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:11, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Recent Court Judgment

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/R-v-Steven-Bray-judgment.pdf

Is this something that might be worth mentioning in the article? It's a recent court judgment that is seemingly related to him and references a charge from March 2024. I don't know much about legal stuff (merely just a judiciary.uk judgment browser) so if it is relevant it might be worth someone with more understanding adding it to the article. (This is my first time doing this so let me know if there's something I should improve on in the future for this / if I've done something incorrect.) SodaGeyser (talk) 00:14, 17 April 2025 (UTC)