Talk:Sigma Alpha Epsilon

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Motto meaning and Business insider

For discussion as to whether or not Business Insider represents a valid referenced source for the meaning of the Motto.Naraht (talk) 15:26, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Disproportionate coverage of scandals

This page has over 50% of the text devoted to scandals. That seems disproportionate to me and not particularly representative of a NPOV. Is there an objection to cleaning this up? --QueenofBattle (talk) 21:47, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

I agree with you. WP:BALANCE and WP:WEIGHT are in play here. The applicable Project group routinely deletes unsourced complaints, and typically those that are unresolved (still being litigated). Those with national significance are kept for longer, such as those that lead to new legislation, or notorious deaths, or those cases where the complaint was fraudulent (UVA rape hoax). --All deaths are significant, and terribly regrettable, but events like accidental fires that could have occurred anywhere ought not be included in a misconduct section.

The section should not be named "Controversies", as there is nothing controversial about criminal conduct being bad. By consensus we name these sections "Local chapter or individual member misconduct", occasionally providing a subheader for a notorious case, either real or fraudulent.

The truth is, some Greek members do dumb or harmful things, and chapters (and individuals) will suffer because of this. But also, Greek detractors tend to puff up the slightest complaint of misconduct and keep these listed for long after the persons involved have left college. Balance is therefore required. Jax MN (talk) 20:18, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

I think the comparison is *probably* to Alpha Phi Alpha, where even though the Misconduct section may be longer, the article is about 4 times the size. Nothing in the SAE article other than the Misconduct section is after 1930. I'd prefer to see more recent history added as well.

I'm fine with deleting things where the coverage is local only and where the chapter wasn't suspended, but I'm not sure that removes that many of them. Putting things in a somewhat more positive light might be finding referenced information about the "True Gentleman Experience" might be appropriate, but that would need to be balanced by explaining the reasons that SAE did things. Honestly, I'm not sure how many of the events would not be included if they were for some other national GLO (say Alpha Chi Rho), so the question is whether entries should be deleted *only* to reduce the numbers for WP:WEIGHT.Naraht (talk) 20:58, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

Yes. And a couple other points, for posterity. First, once the participants graduate or leave school, we reach a point where it is unfair to tag the ongoing group as if they were the ones who caused the misconduct. Still, if the event had reasonable coverage to make it notable, we sometimes place the citation next to that particular chapter on the chapter list, removing it from the main fraternity or sorority article. Jax MN (talk) 22:06, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

As a note, please make sure that any reference is to North America

Bloomberg's article only covered North American fraternities (all of which are headquartered in the USA). Any statements which are not limited to North America would require comparison to the Fraternities and Sororities in the Philippines.Naraht (talk) 17:58, 13 January 2026 (UTC)