Talk:Shihuh

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Shihuh genealogy

In the tribe’s official page, they cite a quote of Ibn Hazm (translated):

Ibn Hazm Al-Andalusi says in the Arab lineages: The sons of Malik are eleven sons, four of whom are famous, namely Salima, the king of Oman, Jazima, the king of Iraq, and Hana, to whom Al-Raht Al-Kabeer in Oman is attributed, and Al-Harith, to whom Al-Shahuh is attributed. Thus, the lineage of Al-Shahuh dates back to Al-Harith bin Malik bin Fahm bin Ghanem bin Daws al-Azdi, who is of Yemeni origin.

— Ibn Hazm al-Andalusi

They trace their genealogy to Qait (also known as Dhu’l Taj), son of al-Harith, of the Daws tribe. They were called Shihuh because their progenitor Qait refused to pay Zakah and as such were called al-Shihuh meaning scarce (in tax payments) :) Ismail7Hussein (talk) 09:56, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

All of which is majestically unsourced to any WP:RS. The 'official website' of the Shihuh has no editorial oversight and its status as official is conferred quite how? Even so, it's hardly an independently reliable source. The existence of Laqit bin Malik Al Azdi is undisputed, he led the apostasy of the Ridda Wars in Southeastern Arabia to the Battle of Dibba. This is sourced. That all Shihuh trace their lineage to Laqit, that the etymology of Shihuh as 'scarce in Zakat' is WP:OR and the statement that "the lineage of Al-Shahuh dates back to Al-Harith bin Malik bin Fahm bin Ghanem bin Daws al-Azdi, who is of Yemeni origin." is SYNTH and - absent any reliable source for the claim - unsustainable. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 13:10, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

Wouldn’t Ibn Hazm be considered a reliable source however? As for the lineage to Malik bin Fahm, this was already repeated in other parts of the article with sources of their own, for example:

“The Arab element of the tribe's make-up, the majority, is thought to be linked to the wave of immigration from Yemen, which brought groups of Malik bin Fahm immigrants north in the second century.”

Thanks, Ismail7Hussein (talk) 13:45, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

"...is thought to be" isn't really the stuff of an infobox. And "groups of Malik bin Fahm immigrants" is hardly a genealogical smoking gun to a 12-step 'nisba' for an entire - and very widespread and diverse tribe. Which comes back to my point - this is not solid, sourced material to add to an article in an encyclopedia. AND a nisba is, effectively, a demonym. Why even seek to include this tenuous lineage? Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 16:39, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

Maybe we could put the lineage in the history section? Because I think that their genealogy and relation to other tribes should at least be mentioned once in the article

Thanks, Ismail7Hussein (talk) 21:53, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

References