Talk:She Chinese

Requested move 8 July 2026

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. (closed by non-admin page mover) 1isall (talk | contribs) 23:24, 22 July 2026 (UTC)

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She Chinese → Shanke dialectShanke dialect –

Noting that many people may not be familiar with this language. I think it is necessary to explain the reason for the move.

The study to the Hakka or Hakka-like variant spoken by the She (Shanke) people is the niche study of niche studies among existing studies to the Chinese language using English language as a medium. The study to this dialect in English is very uncommon, so it is very hard to have a uniform commonly known name in English. Different scholars used different names to call this dialect. Not to mention in English, the National Ethnic Affairs Commission AND other branches of the Chinese government has not even confirmed an official name for this dialect in Chinese. In another word, it doesn't even have an official standardised Chinese name. The language only has a widely acknowledged native endonym called "山客话 (shānkè huà)".

According to the interlanguage links to this concept, there are three Wikipedia articles to this concept in three different languages, which are Chinese, Indonesian, and English.

Both articles in Chinese and Indonesian Wikipedia use this language's native endonym by its native users, which is "山客 (Shanke / Shanha)" as the name for this concept. In Chinese Wikipedia, it is called "zh:山客话 (shānkè huà)". In Indonesian Wikipedia, it is called "id:Bahasa Shanha". In either way, they are based on this language's native endonym "山客话 (Shanke dialect)" called by its native speakers.

Now, let me explain why it is appropriate to change the name of this article from "She Chinese" to "Shanke dialect" in English.

1: The term "She Chinese" is never found in English to refer to this language.

No matter whether you search "She Chinese" in Google Scholar or in other English databases, you will never find this two words "She Chinese" to be used to refer to this language. In some occasions, "She Chinese" may be used to refer to the She people, but "She Chinese" is never used to refer to this language in English. At the same time, you can find "Mandarin Chinese", "Xiang Chinese", "Yue Chinese", "Gan Chinese" everywhere in their studies.

2: "———— Chinese" is the fashion to name primary branches of the Chinese language, not varieties under primary branches.

To be named "———— Chinese", the branch needs to be either large enough or distinct enough (if not large enough). "She Chinese" is neither large enough like "Mandarin Chinese" and other nine primary branches of Chinese, nor distinct enough like "Waxiang Chinese" as an ancient although tiny Chinese branch. This is quite important. For example, Huizhou dialect and Huizhou Chinese are entirely different Chinese varieties. Huizhou Chinese implies that this is a primary Chinese branch, but Huizhou dialect should be under a primary branch (although Huizhou dialect is still disputed regarding whether it should be under Hakka Chinese or Yue Chinese). "She Chinese" is apparently not large enough, and at the same time, it is not as distinct as Waxiang Chinese, because the mainstream linguists classify it as a dialect under Hakka Chinese.

3: "Shanke" as the English name for this language is not a new invention in English. It has already been used in academic journals for long to differentiate itself from other languages used by the She people, such as Dongjia language and Huonie language, and from the exonyms to this language.

In 2021, in publication "Insights From Y-STRs: Forensic Characteristics, Genetic Affinities, and Linguistic Classifications of Guangdong Hakka and She Groups" on PubMed Central and PubMed, it says "She people speak the She language with different dialects such as Shanke, Dongjia, and Huonie. She language is a branch of Sino-Tibetan language families and is the primary language for the She group."

In 2009, in publication "Languages of the She Minority: A Review of the Literature" on the UC Berkley's journal Journal of Chinese Linguistics collected in JSTOR, it says "The Han people call the language spoken by the She Shekehua 畲客话 or Sheminhua 畲民话 ('speech of the She guests' or 'speech of the She people'), but the She people call their own language Shankehua 山客话, or Shanhahua 山哈话 'speech of the mountain guests'."

The name "Shanke" as the dialect's English name in its English spelling has been used and collected by academic authorities for a long time already.

4: According to the WP:COMMONNAME, it says "When there is no single, obvious name that is demonstrably the most frequently used for the topic by these sources, editors should reach a consensus as to which title is best by considering these criteria directly".

All of the four names I have seen in English publications, which are the two native endonyms "Shanke dialect (山客话)" and "Shanha dialect (山哈话)", and two externally defined exonyms "She dialect (畲话)" and "She language (畲语)" referring to this same language, are uncommon, because the study to this language itself is uncommon. Scholars improvised different translations to the name of this language each time when they need to mention this language in English. There is no standardised name or widely known name. You can't even find an entry for this language in a Chinese dictionary, English dictionary, Chinese-English dictionary, or English-Chinese dictionary.

There are in fact many Chinese topics that are rarely discussed or not at all discussed in English. For example, Younian dialect of Chinese spoken by ethnic Yao people is almost never discussed or mentioned in any English source (Google Scholar search result), but it still has an English Wikipedia article.

Therefore without a common name (or without a pre-existing name at all) in English is never a real issue. As long as a good translation is created or selected.

There is a policy in Chinese Wikipedia called zh:WP:名从主人 meaning the name needs to follow what is defined by its owner (主人). That is why "山客话 (Shanke dialect)" is used as the name in Chinese Wikipedia. When the Chinese government does not confirm a standardised name for this language, the native users of this Chinese dialect should be ranked the second to define how this language should be called.

There are similar proposals in English Wikipedia in Wikipedia_talk:Article_titles/COMMONNAME sandbox, but not in official policies.

Therefore I request to move the article from "She Chinese" to "Shanke dialect", following how this language is called in Chinese Wikipedia as "山客话 (Shanke dialect)" and in Indonesian Wikipedia as "Bahasa Shanha".

"Shanke" should be preferred, because "Shanha (山哈)" represents the phonetic loan Chinese character for "Shanke (山客)". "Shanke" is like the true spelling of an English word. "Shanha" is like a common misspelling of an English word. We use the true spelling, not the misspelling.
Sinowriter (talk) 21:30, 8 July 2026 (UTC) — Relisting. 1isall (talk | contribs) 21:54, 15 July 2026 (UTC)

• oppose per COMMONNAME. This dialect/language is discussed in English-language literature, where it is typically called "She dialect" or "She language", e.g.
  • Norman, Jerry Lee (1988). "The She dialect of Luoyuan County". Bulletin of the Institute of History and Philology Academia Sinica. 59 (2): 353–367.
  • Coblin, W. South (2025). Common Shē and Common Hakka-Shē: A Comparative Study. ISBN 978-626-73-4192-6.

In addition, the English-language introduction to the Linguistic Atlas of Chinese Dialects calls it "She dialect". The Atlas treats it as a coordinate branch of Chinese, but others classify it within Hakka.

By the way, the autonym is [san haʔ], of which Shānkè is the Standard Chinese (Mandarin) rendition (similar to Kèjiā for [hak ka]). Kanguole 00:08, 9 July 2026 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.