Talk:Saunders Lewis

Untitled

The link to www.llywellen.co.uk, a site about Garth Celyn an historic house in Gwynedd, seems only to be here because Saunders Lewis wrote a play set at that house. At this external site there is almost no mention of Saunders Lewis so I suggest there is no reason for this link on this page. I shall remove it. Of course should anyone think the link helps then feel free to put it back!

There is a Wiki page about Garth Celyn and that page has this external link, which is totally justified.--Cynnydd 14:04, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Is he Welsh?

I would say his being Welsh in the context of Britain where your place of birth is decisive, is in dispute. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cacadores (talk • contribs) 00:14, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

By whom, other than yourself? Who says place of birth is decisive? By this metric JRR Tolkien was African and George Orwell Indian. Obviously they're both English. By the same token Saunders Lewis is Welsh. Figaro-ahp (talk) 09:16, 1 December 2025 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Cymdeithas-logo.svg

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Removed category

I removed this page from Category:Far-right politics in the United Kingdom as it appears to have been added through OR a while back. Couldn't find sources to substantiate the claim. VsevolodKrolikov (talk) 01:36, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Dafydd Elis-Thomas's Criticism

I have moved Dafydd Elis-Thomas's critical remarks from the Nobel Nominee section to Political Criticisms. The cited source indicates that Elis-Thomas was criticising the content of Lewis's Tynged yr Iaith speech, which is principally a political issue, not a literary issue. Elis-Thomas is a politician, and not known as a literary critic. The sentence Others however consider Saunders Lewis's literary and political reputation is undeserved is now unsourced, and I have removed it. Verbcatcher (talk) 20:47, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080609020726/http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/history/sites/language/pages/1911.shtml to http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/history/sites/language/pages/1911.shtml
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080609021026/http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/history/sites/language/pages/1891.shtml to http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/history/sites/language/pages/1891.shtml
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080609020947/http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/history/sites/language/pages/1961.shtml to http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/history/sites/language/pages/1961.shtml
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080609020655/http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/history/sites/language/pages/1931.shtml to http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/history/sites/language/pages/1931.shtml

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Churchill's views on Hitler

I have reverted User:Atsaca's edit which introduced a comment into the main text regarding Churchill's pre-war comments on Hitler.

• However, in the 1930s other British politicians including Winston Churchill ( in fact this not supported by his book "Great Contemporaries" WSC - he always smelt a rat.) and David Lloyd George also made favourable comments about fascist leaders.

My revert was not intended to indicate a judgement on the issue that was raised. This should either be discussed here or the claim about Churchill could have been removed as a BOLD edit.

This blog post is pertinent to Churchill's views, and identifies a quote that it says has been taken out of context. The evidence for Lloyd George admiring Hitler is stronger, see and , but these sources may not be citable.

I suggest that we remove both names, leaving

• However, in the 1930s other British politicians also made favourable comments about fascist leaders.

Any comments? Verbcatcher (talk) 22:59, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

I have removed the mention of Churchill and Lloyd George. Verbcatcher (talk) 23:12, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Saunders Lewis.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:37, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Removal of content

I have reverted this sequence of 3 edits and requested we discuss here. The removal is of sourced content, except some information in the lead that summarises sourced content, and thus did not, in fact, require sourcing per WP:LEADCITE. So the question is whether the information is really political soapboxing (per the edsums) or whether it is appropriate and due. We can dismiss concerns over grammar as grammar should be fixed and not used as a basis for deletion. So the question is really what is WP:DUE.

Before reverting in, I took a look at all the information removed, and the nature of the sourcing. The information is sourced to reliable sources, and when we have sources like Davis' A History of Wales, there should be a good case for arguing how such sources are undue. Removing that and keeping a BBC article about an online poll seems an odd choice. At least one paragraph, the Marcus Tanner one, is referenced to a reliable source but one where the matter of due weight is less clear, but I think the whole removal is controversial and could do with some more eyes on it before proceeding. Nevertheless, thanks for raising the issues, and let's see where we go from here. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 13:08, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

Some of the information that is sourced can admittedly be reconfigured in such a way that it is more appropriate. The difficulty I found without committing to rewording it at the time is that the user K1ngstowngalway1 very evidently spent last year building large sections of the article in to their own political soapbox, interspersing what looks to be their own political biases throughout and making frequent rants about 'Far Left' and 'Marxist' actors. AderynMelyn (talk) 14:47, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

For some added context on this, the frequent description of D. J. Davies as being a 'Marxist', despite no such description of him being so on his own article exists, is telling. He was certainly a socialist, but it appears to be a deliberate exaggeration.

This is solidly confirmed by the numerous references to Plaid Cymru and/or its leadership being a 'Far Left' party, despite it not being regarded as such by any official body, or indeed, by itself. Another incredibly blatant example of it is in the following addition:

"Pointing out that they were both dominated for decades by Far Left political machines, leading to Soviet-inspired concrete architecture, political corruption, and skyrocketing unemployment, Tanner compared South Wales to the many similarly decaying and disillusioned industrial towns behind the former Iron Curtain after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991." What 'Far Left political machines' are being referred to? It's a politically charged statement that has been inserted as unbiased fact.

There is a similar case when the political bias of K1ngstowngalway1 is betrayed, which is as follows:

"Lewis's legacy remains a controversial one and his simultaneously anti-Marxist and anti-colonialist interpretation of Welsh history and distributist vision for the nation's future have often been the target of attacks from both the Far Left and the Far Right."

This section has no citation, and attempts to frame Lewis as a figure reviled by the far-right, of which, to my knowledge, is simply not the case (hence why, I very strongly suspect, there is no citation for it).

Finally, might I add, the user seems to have been blocked from editing contentious articles already, and lists themselves as part of Catholic Wikipedia. I think the evidence is very strong that the edits they have made have been done with a clear political motivation. AderynMelyn (talk) 15:33, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

Indeed, they are indefinitely blocked for disruptive editing, and I share concerns over, e.f., the far left label and the Tanner source. I have some reading to do, however. I have Davies (1994), but will need to access the papers. If you give me a few hours, I should be able to come back to this. If any other talk page watcher is familiar with the sources, please do chip in. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 17:02, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

I cannot access:

• Jelle Krol (2020), Minority Language Writers in the Wake of World War One: A Case Study of Four European Authors, Palgrave. Pages 102-103.

I have looked at the other sources. Davies checks out pretty well, but the other sources are problematic. The text in the article goes beyond the sources, whilst being partially supported by those sources. You are correct that the "far left" terminology is an import, and the references just speak of the left of the party. I'll restore your edit (i.e. remove all the text) but will then put back the Davies section, which I think is due, well sourced and shows source text integrity. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 18:32, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

In fact you didn't even remove the Davies part, so there we go. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 18:39, 1 June 2025 (UTC)