Talk:Sardus

The libyan hercules

there is a handful of sources that mantion the libyan hercules as a libyan version of the greek on and him being a son of osiris and a mortal women and also father of sardus himself. Jake106meme (talk) 21:48, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

See this edit. There is also a chapter about the relation between Melqart and Heracles in the Oxford Handbook of Hercules (p.464 and after). R Prazeres (talk) 22:57, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

@R Prazeres Makeres isnt quite same there is differences in the story. Maybe it was pheonicians who claimed he is malqart. Makeres story is that he was king if tribe and he invaded siwa then built a large fort surrounded by snakes and water in sahara (i believe this a story of germa) and also son if osiris unlike malqart Jake106meme (talk) 19:23, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

R Prazeres is right. "Libyan Hercules" is Melqart. Gods in the ancient world don't have "canonical" versions of their stories, so differences aren't that important. Plus, things that Greek and Roman authors report about local legends are always a bit suspect, since they're usually changing things and euhemerizing the gods.--Ermenrich (talk) 19:42, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

I disagree here is the thing if a historian identified Malqart with Makeres it is the same as the greek historian identifying thor with hercules it may be different the myth it self establishes differences. Some of the Roman Legends identify egyptian Gods with the roman gods (aka greek gods but with different name) Makeres may be influenced by malqart but not same Character Maybe deserve his own Jake106meme (talk) 19:59, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

We follow what modern reliable sources say here. That you personally think they're different is not relevant if modern reliable sources say they're the same, or similar enough to use one name anyway.--Ermenrich (talk) 21:35, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

It isn’t what I personally think it is that Makeres much Like Hercules is the Libyan Version of Malqart Which may be similar or close but different Jake106meme (talk) 04:47, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, you need a WP:RELIABLE SOURCE, and something from the 19th century doesn't count because WP:AGE MATTERS.--Ermenrich (talk) 14:48, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

In search Of The Pheonicians Chapter:6 page 126 (https://books.google.com.ly/books?id=OEKdDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA126&dq=Sardus+is+not+melqart&hl=ar&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&ovdme=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwikxY_luPaCAxW2EBAIHS4JDb0Q6AF6BAgGEAM#v=onepage&q=Sardus%20is%20not%20melqart&f=false) Jake106meme (talk) 18:54, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

That source says that Sardus is the son of Melqart, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.--Ermenrich (talk) 18:57, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

It makes a distinction between the two claiming both makeris and hercules are two versions of malqart Jake106meme (talk) 19:02, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Are you not reading the same thing I am? It explicitly says "On Sardinia, for instance, the second-century CE Greek author Pausanias records a story associating 'Herakles' with one 'Makeris,' surely an attempt to render Melqart into Greek." So no, it does not do what you claim.--Ermenrich (talk) 19:04, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

'Identifiable with'

@R Prazeres: Can you clarify what Makeris is likely identifiable with Melqart means? The article currently states that Makeris is identifiable with ... a Libyan name and with the Punic Melqart. This is not necessarily a contradiction but it needs to be clarified if indeed both things are true. Srnec (talk) 20:00, 31 January 2026 (UTC)

Meaning (if I understand the quoted sources correctly) these two names refer to the same figure; i.e., "Makeris" would be a derivation of Melqart (I assume of Punic/Phoenician origin). Looking at Lipiński (the source cited before that sentence, ), I think he disagrees with that interpretation, at least in part: he disagrees with earlier authors that the name "Maceris" would derive from the name "Melqart", as he notes there is evidence of "Macer/Macur-" being of Berber origin, but seems to agree that Makeris was assimilated to the figure of Hercules (though his wording is not 100% clear to me on this), while also noting in the next paragraph that Makeris may have been assimilated to Baal Hammon in Carthage. That said, the other two sources are more recent, so I would guess that there may not be clear agreement among academics on this. It's still a little confusing overall, so a wider review of the literature might be needed. It may be easier in the meantime to revise the article's wording to make it clear the cited authors are not (necessarily) agreeing on these details.

It's been a while since I originally looked at this (I don't remember if I consulted other sources) and my intervention was mostly limited to this one occasion dealing with an LTA. So feel free to revise as you think best, as this isn't my area of expertise. R Prazeres (talk) 22:21, 31 January 2026 (UTC)