Talk:Sangza

page move

I have already moved this back to Sangza once today, yet another editor is insisting on dabbing it incorrectly and changing the name without consensus or a discussion, or even a reason. It should be moved back to Sangza until consensus can be reached. Praxidicae (talk) 14:10, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. Track your hook after promotion. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:32, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

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• Article history

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• ... that an 1839 imperial Manchu banquet menu featured 13.6 kg (30 lb) of sanzi, deep-fried noodles, per person?

• Source: "The 1839 Protocols of the Court of the Imperial Kitchen presents the first known record of an official menu, outlining six levels of formality with each one having separate dishes for the Manchu and Han banquets. Each description begins with exact instructions for decor and table settings, the number of plates and ewers to be used, as well as the allocation of tents, cloth and firewood calibrated to the level of the event. Each menu then outlines the dishes and ingredients. [...] A bit more poking around the original source confirms that these ingredients are in fact the allocation per guest. Manchu Feast, 1839 [...] Red and white sanzi, 3 plates – 8.8 jin [...] The single largest item consists of nearly 13.6 kilograms (30 lb) of deep-fried noodles known as sanzi." DuBois, Thomas David (2024). China in seven banquets: a flavourful history. London: Reaktion books. pp. 95–103, 279. ISBN 978-1-78914-861-9.

• • Reviewed:
  • Comment: If needed I can provide a longer quote justifying the portion sizes.

5x expanded by Wimwamble (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Wimwamble (talk) 04:26, 10 March 2026 (UTC).

• Hook looks quite interesting here. Article length and age are fine, no copyvio or plagiarism concerns, reliable sources are used. Though I might rewrite a little to:
• ALT1a : ... that an 1839 imperial Manchu banquet menu included 13.6 kg (30 lb) of deep-fried noodles, known as sanzi, per person?
• ALT1b :... that each person was served 13.6 kg (30 lb) of deep-fried sanzi at an 1839 imperial Manchu banquet?
  • ALT1a works with me, but for ALT1b I don't know if the menu was written/published the same year as the banquet itself. I'll try looking into it, it would be smoother to write that. Wimwamble (talk) 05:46, 13 March 2026 (UTC)
    • Just ping once you managed to check.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 11:26, 13 March 2026 (UTC)
      • @ZKang123 So it looks like the original documents were in use starting 1830 (Daoguang 10) and compiled in 1839.. It's not definitively saying that the banquets happened as prescribed, but I think it's not too much of a stretch to say that. There were different levels of banquets and different quantities of sanzi for different months, but I think the quote comes from this menu. It's probably an error, but instead of 8.8 jin it's 8 jin 8 liang per plate, which is (3×8.5×0.59=15.045 kg). That makes me question if this book is correct about it being per person, but for now I'll go with that. There's probably a better way to word it but how about:
        • ALT1c :... that a person could be served 15 kg (33 lb) of deep-fried noodles, known as sanzi, at imperial Manchu banquets in 1830?
      • (I put in noodles because it doesn't feel right to say something like "deep-fried doughnuts".) Thanks for your patience, I hope I'm not overcomplicating this. Wimwamble (talk) 10:17, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

I think that might work. ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 10:27, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

@Wimwamble: the math isn't mathing for me here. Everything I've researched has lead me to believe that during the Manchu dynasty that 8 yin 8 Liang is about 5.07 kg or 11.18 lb. TarnishedPath^talk 12:28, 10 April 2026 (UTC)

Ps, I saw your comment above but that doesn't resolve that there is a conflict in the quoted source. TarnishedPath^talk 12:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC)

I'm not sure how to resolve the conflict. Is the primary source + unit conversion enough to support that part? Would it be better to remove the quantity or replace with "biggest dish"? Wimwamble (talk) 02:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC)

@Wimwamble: Yep, I don't find that I'm able to support the hook with Red and white sanzi, 3 plates – 8.8 jin [...] The single largest item consists of nearly 13.6 kilograms (30 lb) of deep-fried noodles known as sanzi which I find potentially contradictory. My reading of it is that the 3 plates could weigh 8 jin 8 liang. Then at the end it states that the single largest item ..., is a plate not an item? It is true that 3 x 8 jin 8 liang would be about 13.6kg, but I'm having trouble extracting that from the source. I do see a potentially interesting hook in regards to Uyghur eating Sangza for Eid al-Fitr and Eid al-Adha. I'm not sure what you mean by "biggest dish". TarnishedPath^talk 04:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC)

Manchu Feast (1839)
Four-colour jade frost pastries - 48
Four-color stuffed white crispy pastry - 48
Four-color stuffed white pastry - 48
White honey egg pastries - 48
Egg pastries - 48
Yellow and white treats - 50
Pine nut cakes, 2 plates - 48
Red and white sanzi, 3 plates - 8.8 jin
12 plates of dried fruits, 6 plates of fresh seasonal fruit

Here's longer quote if that helps. The items aren't plates but served on plates, like a plate of spaghetti or a plate of salad. The primary source also lists the numbers of plates and weights for the other items besides the fruit. Out of those, sanzi has the highest weight, and I think that's what "largest single item" means. "Biggest dish" is how I paraphrased that, maybe "menu item" is clearer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wimwamble (talk • contribs) 06:57, 14 April 2026 (UTC)

ALT2 :...that the biggest menu item at 1830s imperial Manchu banquets was deep-fried noodles called sanzi?

ALT2a :...that deep-fried noodles called sanzi were eaten at imperial Manchu banquets in the 1830s?

ALT3 : ...that deep-fried noodles called sangza are eaten by Uyghur people for Eid al-Fitr and Eid al-Adha?

• approval for ALT2, ALT2a and ALT3. TarnishedPath^talk 23:14, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

Uyghur focus

Why the Uyghur name first? And why is the title of the article itself the Uyghur name and not the Mandarin one? The article says it is 'from northern China' and that it is eaten 'throughout China'. 'Northern China' is not limited to Xinjiang, to put it mildly. In contrast, putting the Uyghur name first and basing the title on it implies that it is a characteristically Uyghur dish. Anonymous44 (talk) 10:57, 25 April 2026 (UTC)

You'd have to ask the person who added the lang text and the person who created the page, respectively. Primefac (talk) 20:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC)