Talk:Samantan
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[edit]Please change the title to "Samantan Nair". Due to the additional "h", it is not properly citing in other related artciles on Nair. Please keep either "Samantan" or "Samanthan" everywhere on wiki" Thanks..
Hello Everyone
[edit]I think Pillais were also samanthans, since Ettuveettil Pillais were related to the Traancore royal family. In malabar one can see nairs of royal lineage with surnames like nairs, mooppil Nairs etc. I think Thampis are found only in Travancore. I read in one post in Nair article that there were no rule in samanthans marrying other nairs and Veluthampi's father was a pillai. Any comments? Ashwin
Well it is possible pillais are samanthans...because my mothers family is unnithans and in the past they didnt marry any other nairs....but for pillais it was ok..they used to marry pillais...so i guess ur rite...pillais also have some sort of a place in this list..after all, all the pillais were 'thirumukoms' which is just below thirumeni.. - Manu
Have u forgotten the history "Kallanum maravanum pillayayinaan". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.147.157.18 (talk) 12:12, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
- Take your hatred towards Nairs to some other place. The Tamil saying you quoted refers to Tamil caste system and is not even remotely connected to the caste system in Kerala. It refers to the promotion of Kallars to Maravar first, then from Maravar to Agamudaiyan and then from Agamudaiyan to Vellala Pillai. 122.177.193.85 (talk) 15:20, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
Redirects
[edit]The Samanthan article was redirected to Samanta Kshatriya. However after verifying the sources i have found that there is a difference between these groups. Samanthans are not Samanta Kshatriyas which is merely the traditional name of the Malayala Kshatriyas. Thus Samanta Kshatriya now redirects to Malayala Kshatriyas while the redirect from Samanthan has been removed. Manu
Changed "are a class of Kshatriyas " to "are a Savarna caste". Samanthans are not classified as as a Kshatriya caste. --Ags100 16:38, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Samanthans status as Malayala Kshatriya / Vrata Kshatriya
[edit]The Samanthans are Kshatriya. Historically, they are connected to the Bunts, who are descendants of the Nagavanshi Kshatriyas which threw their sacred threads away in fear of Parashurama. The Nambuthiris knew this, and it is in their records (see Keralolpathi). This has also been proven with the Indo-Scythian bloodline of the Nairs (see ref here), as well as the R1a gene found in majority of the upper caste Nairs.
The Nambuthiris refer to all Brahmins other then themselves as Sudras. They also claim that all the Kshatriyas were killed by parashurama, meaning that there are no more kshatriyas. So is it logical to take the Nambuthiri point of view? Because describing the Samanthans as Sudras is the Nambuthiri point of view. This would also mean that other castes such as the Rajputs, Iyers, and West Bengal brahmins are also Sudras. Should we rewrite all the wiki pages on all upper castes of India because they did not get their coronation from the Nambuthiris?
Any other brahmin (other than the gold greedy Nambuthiris) will coronate the Samanthans into Kshatriyahood. This is why some Samanthan families secretly go to other brahmin families for coronation. This is also the reason why the Nambuthiris describe all other brahmins as sudras, to discourage the Samanthans from getting their coronation from them. Its all about gold "gifts" for the coronation ceremony.
Therefore, the Samanthans are Vrata-Kshatriya (or Malayala Kshatriya) till coronation. It is ridiculous to refer a Raja (with Nagavanshi descent, as well as Aryan physical features) as a Sudra.--Zero.vishnu (talk) 17:48, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
- Even the Samanta Kshatriyas themselves were considered Non-Kshatriya by the vast majority of the Namboothiris, except for a few local Nambuthiri clans who recognized them. Axxn (talk) 18:35, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
- They were considered as "Super duper shudra" by the Nambuthiris. This also means that the super duper shudras of Kerala were higher caste than all the other upper caste of India, including the Brahmins in other states. My point is the Nambuthiri view is not valid. The standard Indian caste model system should be used, not the specialized system invented by the nambuthiris, where the four layers look like this:
- 1.Nambuthiri
- 2.Super Duper Shudra
- 3.Super Shudra
- 4.Shudra
- 5.Avarnas
- This model is wrong. Using the contemporary Vedic caste model, almost all Nairs are Kshatriya by heritage and martial history. --Zero.vishnu (talk) 19:36, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
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Sadasivan and namboothiri.com
[edit]I have removed all statements relating to Sadasivan and namboothiri.com. The latter is an advocacy group and publishes quite a lot of dubious twaddle concerning historical matters; the former has been widely contested at other Nair-related articles. - Sitush (talk) 06:34, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Samanthan - original source in Article JOAN P. MENCHER , The Nayars of South Malabar - placed above the majority of Nayars
[edit]checked the source page 167 , - A group of castes known as Ambalavasis (temple servants) and Samantans (ruling chiefs) were placed above the majority of Nayars
Most Samantans subcastes intermarry among one another, though the men might also marry Nayar women and the women might take Brahmin husband
In Ernad taluq, specifically in Angadi, the matrilineal caste groups include several Ambilavasi subcastes, Samantans, Nayars and Chalians 68.33.4.126 (talk) 04:57, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
Extended Protection Edit Request
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Beginning paragraph has a non-existent word, 'Samantar.' None of the sources mention this word, and a Google search turns up no results. Instead, the word Samantha Kshatriya had been re-directed to this page, and is stated in the Joan Mencher source. Furthermore, the non-English words should be hyperlinked for further reading.
Extended Protection Edit Request:
Current:
Samantan, also known as Samantar or Samanthan Nair[1] (meaning "Kshatriyas without Vedic rituals" or "equal to"), was a generic term applied to dignify a group of sub-clans among the ruling elites (Naduvazhi) and feudal lords (Jenmimar) of the Nair community in Kerala, India.[2][3]
New:
Samantan, also known as Samanthan Nair or Samantha Kshatriya[4] (meaning "Kshatriyas without Vedic rituals" or "equal to"), was a generic term applied to dignify a group of sub-clans among the Naduvazhi (ruling elites) and the Jenmimar (feudal lords) of the Nair community in Kerala, India.[5][6] Taliparamba (talk) 08:16, 22 October 2025 (UTC)
Done I also did a search for Samantar and could not find it, so I'll remove it. Also did the other parts of your edit request. Lova Falk (talk) 09:25, 22 October 2025 (UTC)
- Thank you, lova! Just another addition: could you also add Samantha Kshatriya to the first sentence. The Samantha Kshatriya page redirects to the Samantan page, and since there are quite a few pages that uses this word and gets redirected here, it might be good to include it. Taliparamba (talk) 09:31, 22 October 2025 (UTC)
- Ah I missed that one. I added it now. Lova Falk (talk) 09:34, 22 October 2025 (UTC)
- Thank you, Lova. Taliparamba (talk) 09:36, 22 October 2025 (UTC)
- I think there should be a space between the two words Taliparamba (talk) 09:37, 22 October 2025 (UTC)
- Of course. I am getting very tired now and I need to take a break.🙂 Lova Falk (talk) 10:23, 22 October 2025 (UTC)
- Yes, Lova xD Taliparamba (talk) 10:26, 22 October 2025 (UTC)
- Of course. I am getting very tired now and I need to take a break.🙂 Lova Falk (talk) 10:23, 22 October 2025 (UTC)
- Ah I missed that one. I added it now. Lova Falk (talk) 09:34, 22 October 2025 (UTC)
- Thank you, lova! Just another addition: could you also add Samantha Kshatriya to the first sentence. The Samantha Kshatriya page redirects to the Samantan page, and since there are quite a few pages that uses this word and gets redirected here, it might be good to include it. Taliparamba (talk) 09:31, 22 October 2025 (UTC)
References
- ↑ Gough, Kathleen (1954). "The Traditional Kinship System of the Nayars of Malabar". Social Science Research Council Summer Seminar on Kinship, Harvard University. Harvard University Press. OL 15134143M.
- ↑ Mencher, Joan (1963). "The Nayars of South Malabar". Cornell University Press.
- ↑ Narayanan, Muttayil Govindamenon Sankara (January 1996). Perumāḷs of Kerala: Brahmin Oligarchy and Ritual Monarchy : Political and Social Conditions of Kerala Under the Cēra Perumāḷs of Makōtai (c. AD 800-AD 1124). Current Books Thrissur. ISBN 8193368320.
- ↑ Gough, Kathleen (1954). "The Traditional Kinship System of the Nayars of Malabar". Social Science Research Council Summer Seminar on Kinship, Harvard University. Harvard University Press. OL 15134143M.
- ↑ Mencher, Joan (1963). "The Nayars of South Malabar". Cornell University Press.
- ↑ Narayanan, Muttayil Govindamenon Sankara (January 1996). Perumāḷs of Kerala: Brahmin Oligarchy and Ritual Monarchy : Political and Social Conditions of Kerala Under the Cēra Perumāḷs of Makōtai (c. AD 800-AD 1124). Current Books Thrissur. ISBN 8193368320.
Spell check It's eradi , vellodi, and nedungadi not nedungodi. Some of the famous nedungadi quotes also ccan be added
[edit]Spell check It's eradi , vellodi, and nedungadi not nedungodi. Some of the famous nedungadi quotes also ccan be added and relevant sources can be quoted. I don't see any mention on Hiranyagarbhaa where eradi samantha was raised to samantha kshathriya by zamorin ~2026-30126-0 (talk) 15:32, 14 January 2026 (UTC)