Talk:Rum

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Barbados production levels

There have been recent attempts to list Barbados as a (if not "the") major world-wide producer of rum ( and ). In 2010, Barbados exported ~US$28.5 million worth of rum. While Barbados clearly has some well known rum distilleries, when you compare the island's level of production to J. Wray and Nephew Ltd. (€145 million during first 9 months of 2013.) or House of Angostura (TT$275.7 million in after tax profit for 2013) it is clear that Barbados is a relatively small player even before we look into major distilling corporations such as Bacardi or Beam Suntory. Given that Barbado's annual level of rum exports is roughly 10% that of just one Jamaican distiller, attempts to list the island separate from the rest of the Caribbean (not to mention as the first place on the list) is just not justified by the amount of rum produced on the island. --Allen3 ^talk 03:48, 30 December 2014 (UTC) It is, however, justified by the quality and unique character of Barbados rum. Every rum aficionado knows Richard Seale and the Four Square distillery, because he is known to supply honest, unadulterated, pure rum (unlike said Baccardi or Suntory who care mostly only about profits). Barbados rum, just like Jamaican or Demerara rum simply represent a well-established and known styles you cannot omit while trying to explain the different. If volumes were the only thing that mattered, nobody would seek these brands and pay the extra money to procure them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kamamura (talk • contribs) 02:05, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

The role played by the Canaries in the world rum industry

The role played by the Canaries in the world rum industry. I think this might help. Komitsuki (talk) 13:43, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Scottish rum?

I notice that the introduction to this page states that rum is made in Scotland. If that's true, I'd like this to be sourced, if it is a malicious or mistaken edit, it's time for this to be corrected. Svartalf (talk) 14:43, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Frankly, that list of "Rum is also produced in" countries is a horrible thing to have in an intro paragraph. A short list of two or three is one thing, a list of NINETEEN countries is nigh-unreadable. - BrainiacBlink (talk) 00:02, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

removal of indian RS

@Serols: why have you removed my sourced information from this article without any perticular reason stated?, please give a valid reason, regards. 175.137.72.188 (talk) 19:28, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

a drink Shidhu which is Fermented and distilled sugarcane juice with dhataki flowers ( Woodfordia jruticosa) is mentioned in early sanskrit texts,.an indian physician, Vaghbhata, slightly later, advises a man to drink unvitiated liquor like rum and wine, and mead mixed with mango juice ‘together with friends’.

Hello 175.137.72.188, see my talk-page. Regards --Serols (talk) 19:36, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

hi, @Serols:, is this version acceptable to you, regards. 175.137.72.188 (talk) 06:59, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

A drink called Shidhu which was a fermented and distilled Sugarcane juice with Dhataki flowers ( Woodfordia jruticosa) is mentioned in early Sanskrit texts. An Indian physician, Vaghbhata, slightly later, advises a man to drink unvitiated liquor like Rum, wine and mead mixed with Mango juice ‘together with friends’.

hi, please discuss if this version is okay or not, please dont remove my RS without discussion. 175.137.72.188 (talk) 10:26, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

@Samsara:@C.Fred:— Preceding unsigned comment added by 175.137.72.188 (talk • contribs)

• Problem: I have WP:revdeled a bunch of contributions in the article and on this page because they contained a link to a pirated work. Just because something is on Archive.org and just because someone slaps a Creative Commons label doesn't mean that they actually have the right to do so. The work is still under copyright by Oxford University Press, so the Archive link is technically illegal. Ian.thomson (talk) 14:34, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

i can understand where this is going, regards. 175.137.72.188 (talk) 14:37, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the pings. I'm basically happy with the way I've been able to rephrase it, omitting those parts over which there was uncertainty. I'll leave it as a point for discussion whether an "according to" is needed here as we have only a single source and the translation of the word "rum" almost 1000 years prior to its first attestation in English seems tentative. Samsara 15:57, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

We can't read too much into the translation. On the one hand, "rum" might have been the handiest term the translator had for a liquor. On the other hand, if the translator were familiar with the Indian drink, then rum might have been what the translator felt the drink most resembled. The problem, of course is we're reading into the translation, and synthesis is to be avoided—and might be a sign we need an "according to" clause. —C.Fred (talk) 17:50, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

hi, Samsara, can you please consider that on page 60, the author also mentions a direct reference to a german translation of Vagbhata's work before considering to add according to, because for cypress account, we have to rely on the author for the the word 'rum', and there is no mention of the reference itself, neither description of the drink, but in this case, the direct book of Vagbhata has been cited, secondly, the drink Shidhu is also described as a fermented and distilled drink made form sugarcane juice, which again has also been cited directly from the texts, which seems to meet the criteria of rum., i do understand that rum word obviously has later origins, but the author is indeed using a direct quotation from a german translation of a sanskrit work, shouldn't give more credibility to the word 'Rum' used here, regards.

References

Rum etymology from 'saccharum'?

Saccharum (New Latin) is the genus of tall perennial plants (specifically sugarcane), which is used to produced "rum". Savvyjack23 (talk) 04:32, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Ok I can see it was discussed in removed and reversal changes (here) and ultimately an unexplained removed from the article (here). The known argument(s) were:

"Sugar itself was never used to make rum, and "it was not until the eighteenth century that Linnaeus gave sugarcane the scientific name of Saccharum officinarum" according to Ian Williams (source: Rum, A Social and Sociable History, Ian Williams, 2005)" --Sismiquededans

"Besides being sourced, the removal is based on 2 faulty premises: firstly, "saccharum" is not just the scientific name, but the actual Latin word for sugar; secondly, no one said its explicitly made from sugar." --Oknazevad

Will investigate further. Savvyjack23 (talk) 05:20, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

"Association with piracy"

 "The beverage has famous associations with the Royal Navy (where it was mixed with water or beer to make grog) and piracy (where it was consumed as bumbo)."

I call BS. "Piracy" is a name for a type of crime, not a mythical cultural group of men who wear eye patches and silk sashes and go a-swashbuckling o'er the Seven Seas. A pirate is any vessel that steals another vessel or the cargo by force on the high seas. Most people guilty of piracy were indistinguishable from any other vessel, and most of them only turned to piracy in moments of opportunity when nobody was looking. They were just normal merchant ships the rest of the time. The most common type of pirate, today and historically, is small boats that sally out to raid offshore vessels, typically in Africa and Asia. Do they drink rum by choice and wear peg legs? Rum may be associated with a specific TYPE of pirate (i.e. European pirates based in the Caribbean or privateer crews on the Spanish Main), but not "piracy" in general, except as the modern mythological swashbuckling, black-sailed, eye-patched "pirate" out of POTC. So rum is associated with what people PERCEIVE to have been piracy. If many regular pirates drank a lot of rum, it is not surprising as it was an almost universal drink among seafaring men in that era. Since pirates were just merchant crews and man-o-war seamen who were shipping with a captain who didn't mind a little unauthorized privateering, it would be astonishing if the drank anything ELSE. And of course most high-seas "pirating" exploits were actually born from privateers working the Spanish gold ships. In any case, there was no group of people called "pirates" who dressed and acted a certain way, and drank "bumbo" as a group.

64.223.166.179 (talk) 21:41, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Agree. Rum was widely available in the caribbean, so thats what sailors drank- whether naval sailors, pirates, or otherwise.

In fact, during the golden age of piracy, pirates may have consumed less rum, and more Spanish wine and brandy, as at the time, Spain prohibited the production of rum as a protectionist measure to ensure the dominance of its wine and brandy industries in the empire. https://www.gotrum.com/the-rum-university/rum-in-history/pirates-and-rum-debunking-a-myth/ 𝟏𝟎𝐚𝐫𝐭𝟏 ^talk 17:11, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

'American countries'

Not a widely used or readily understood formulation. If we mean South, Central and North America, the usual phrase would be "the Americas." – Sca (talk) 15:13, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

A rum do

In Etymology, we might sneak in mention of the old British English phrase "a rum do", meaning a poorly executed or distasteful event or situation. – Sca (talk) 15:22, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

PS: And then there's the song. – Sca (talk) 15:48, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

No rum on Swedish ship Wasa

It is stated that a bottle of rum was found on Swedish naval ship Wasa that sank in Stockholm in 1628. We now know that this is wrong. It turns out the sprit was made from distilled wine. https://spiritsnews.se/vasa-1628-story/ BlueMilkMaking (talk) 08:30, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Reference/Citation Cleanup

I have just completed a phase of cleanup for existing references/citations. There is obviously more to do, but alas, I am done for now. —¿philoserf? (talk) 23:54, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Jamaican rum/Rum, adequacy?

we have some links to Jamaican rum (Jamaican Rum). Is it clearly identifiable concept? Estopedist1 (talk) 08:00, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Regional spelling choice

This article has an inconsistent mix of "color", "colour", "mechanised", "utilized", "flavor", and "flavour" (MOS:CONSISTENT). Choosing a national English variety is a bit tricky, since rum is made around the world and has a very international history, so MOS:TIES doesn't provide clear guidance. However, the Caribbean plays a large role in the historical and present-day rum industry, and Jamaica is the world's largest rum producer, so I'll suggest Jamaican English as a starting proposal, but I'm not emotionally invested in any particular outcome.-Ich (talk) 12:59, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

Appleton rum pictured is not a product of Barbados.This is strictly a Jamaican product so give that country the credit. Thanks

That Rum pictured is Jamaican rum so why is Barbados getting the credit. 71.46.236.251 (talk) 19:00, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Tanduay

Is it necessary to advertise a brand in the first ever paragraph? 94.142.70.23 (talk) 11:14, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Yeah this is ridiculous 77.98.43.8 (talk) 01:12, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Requesting input on my changes to #regional variations

I was already planning on adding a GI section here, but the whole section seemed disjoint and had random trivia, so I rearranged it, and removed some items.

A lot of the original subsection had a lot of claims without citations. I did my best to cite what I was adding, but there's more work to be done.

I removed the following:

• section on "Rude Rum" or "John Crow Batty" - seems like some random trivia that doesn't really add anything
• section on Seco from Panama - this is just a brand of aguardiente, not a regional variation on it
• section on West African cane juice, as neither the section nor references actually describe how it's a regional variation, just that it exists and it's consumed
• section on Tuzemak and Inländerrum. They're not rum, they're not variations on rum, they're a substitute for rum.
• Canary ron miel de Canarias and mexican charanda - these are GIs, and definitely I could see them belonging, but they're less relevant GIs, and I feel like if we include them, then we would have to include every GI exhaustively. If you wish to be the one to add that, then by all means!

𝟏𝟎𝐚𝐫𝐭𝟏 ^talk 06:15, 24 January 2026 (UTC)

Also I want to remove the image of the Bacardi building in Cuba, because... what does it add? 𝟏𝟎𝐚𝐫𝐭𝟏 ^talk 06:22, 24 January 2026 (UTC)

I know zero about rum other than what I've read here, but some suggestions just for fun:

• In consideration of WP:NPOV and due weight (WP:DUE), consider removing the direct quotes from Seale to condense the info about his perspective, since he represents one of the four relevant companies.
• Headings should be in sentence case: WP:SENTENCECASE.
• Since most of the info about "Rude Rum" or "John Crow Batty" was cited to a decent reference, I'd suggest going back to that reference and figuring out what it can add to the article. Maybe you could add it back as a citation about Jamaican home-distilled traditions.
• The existence of Tuzemak is kinda interesting. Could be interesting to make a brief section near the end about ersatz rums.

Dreamyshade (talk) 08:02, 24 January 2026 (UTC)

Agree with removing the Seale quote, and fixing title casing.

For Rude rum, I think it can definitely have its place. Jamaica has a lot of very interesting rum traditions and variations, and I don't know if rude rum is particularly notable among them, but Jamaican variations probably deserve their own section, with rude rum being among them as an example.

Also, I think that Tuzemak, Inlaenderrum, Verschnitt, etc. can definitely have their place in the rum article, I just object to them being a "regional variation" of rum, and if I had to pick an existing section, I would leave them in "grades of rum", since that includes other rum-based spirit drinks like flavored rum and spiced rum. 𝟏𝟎𝐚𝐫𝐭𝟏 ^talk 14:55, 24 January 2026 (UTC)

I am silly. rude rum is a nickname for 63% white overproof rum, absolutely a cultural icon of Jamaica. I didn't realize that this is what it was. 𝟏𝟎𝐚𝐫𝐭𝟏 ^talk 15:54, 24 January 2026 (UTC)

Great! I'm glad you that worked "John Crow Batty" back into the article too, so that other people can click the reference and find out that it means Vulture's Bum, which is pretty funny. Dreamyshade (talk) 18:44, 24 January 2026 (UTC)

I wanted to discuss this topic more first, because I already basically rewrote the whole section on regional variations, but it's still relatively incomplete.

https://thefatrumpirate.com/geographic-indications-gis-what-frameworks-exist

This new article goes into more detail how there's so much more nuance to the different types of protections that exist within rum. It honestly could merit its own wikipedia page. 𝟏𝟎𝐚𝐫𝐭𝟏 ^talk 17:20, 1 March 2026 (UTC)

Requesting input on my changes to #grading

I rewrote it as Rum#Commercial_categorization because these really aren't "grades" of rum. A dark rum is not a grade above gold, which is not a grade above light.

A lot of the old information was based on uncited stereotypes, like gold rum being a flavor in between light and dark rum, I also removed Demerara rum as that is a regional classification already covered there. I added back the mentions of Tuzemak and Inlaender-Rum that were previously removed from regional variations, as they are a category of spirit drink that imitates rum, and that deserves mention.

I did my best with the remaining categories, as they are flawed and largely based on stereotypes, but are still noteworthy enough to have a dedicated section, as "gold rum", "dark rum", "sipping rum", etc. are all much more prevalent in consumer and retail perceptions than more advanced categorization methods. 𝟏𝟎𝐚𝐫𝐭𝟏 ^talk 19:01, 24 January 2026 (UTC)

To be honest, I don't want to baby this page and constantly be making minor tweaks, but I am slightly unhappy with the categorization section.

First, it has regional varieties, which I think, while outdated, stereotypical, and maybe unduly tying countries to their colonial pasts, is still not only a widely used system, popularized by some of the original tiki legends (and, to be fair, back in the early 1900s this system made way more sense), and a lot of people still use it because it's a decent shorthand.

Next, it has the typical commercial categories, which I strongly dislike, but I recognize its encyclopedic importance since this is the way most consumers and retailers actually label rums.

However, there's other systems out there that I never added to the wikipedia page, as I don't know if they are notable enough to include. Maybe they are. To prime you, please take a look at this short article. Then, please look over them and add them if you agree that they are notable:

1. The Cate system. It's become even more popular among modern tiki and rum enthusiasts, as it's more geared towards the actual flavors than the other two systems, but it's still flawed. As the article points out, Appleton Estate Signature, Real McCoy 3, and El Dorado 3, are all "lightly aged blended", and these rums are not interchangable.

2. The Gargano system. It's a very interesting paradigm because it categorizes rum not based on what country it is from, or what stills are used, but rather by how artisanal it is and how much it adheres to the country's terroir. In this case, an AOC rhum agricole, a single pot still from Jamaica, and a single column still from Barbados are all the same category. They are totally different countries, totally different tastes, but united by their craft and quality, which I find to be a super interesting paradigm.

3. Then there's The Whiskey Exchange, which seems to be a hybrid of all of these. 𝟏𝟎𝐚𝐫𝐭𝟏 ^talk 20:31, 1 February 2026 (UTC)

Invention of Rum

Why does the first paragraph say that rum was invented by slaves in the 17th century, but the history section clearly cites examples that contradict this claim by many hundreds of years? ~2026-15141-97 (talk) 22:10, 8 April 2026 (UTC)

What exactly is the contradiction? Sugarcane wine is not rum. 𝟏𝟎𝐚𝐫𝐭𝟏 ^talk 00:57, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

"Cuban rum" listed at Redirects for discussion

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