Talk:Rowan Williams

MOS and the capitalisation of "Archbishop of Canterbury"

As the MOS states, a position can be capititalised when it is "a formal title for a specific entity (or conventional translation thereof) is addressed as a title or position in and of itself". This is clearly the case for "Archbishop of Canterbury" as it is for "President of the United States". Elsewhere in the MOS it states that a bishop's formal title or position should be capitalied. Anglicanus (talk) 10:59, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

What you are missing are the conditions upon which formal titles can be capitalized. MOS:JOBTITLES says that job titles should be capitalized only "when a formal title for a specific entity (or conventional translation thereof)

• is addressed as a title or position in and of itself,
• is not plural,
• is not preceded by a modifier (including a definite or indefinite article),
• and is not a reworded description."

In this case, the formal titles are preceded by modifiers, namely ordinal numbers and definite articles. Therefore the titles should be lower case. See the examples in the table given there. MOS:JOBTITLES already allows for far too much capitalization in comparison to academic literature (see Oxford Style Guide for example); applying upper case even more is a gross overkill. Surtsicna (talk) 11:02, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

I am not "missing" anything. Addressed as a title or position in and of itself applies to episcopal titles such as "Archbishop of Canterbury". Also, at WP:BISHOP it clearly states that "Note that the lower-case in "bishop" does not apply to use of an episcopal title ("Bishop of London") in article text, where the capital "B" is standard in British English and very common in American English." Regardless of your personal preference, or that of some style manuals, the style convention for episcopal titles in Wikipedia articles is "Bishop of ...." and not "bishop of ..." in the text. Anglicanus (talk) 11:26, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Yes, you are missing the conditions. One of the conditions is that the "formal title for a specific entity" is "addressed as a title or position in and of itself" and another is that it is "not preceded by a modifier (including a definite or indefinite article)". I am not referencing my personal preference. Wikipedia's MoS says that "the archbishop of Canterbury" is correct whereas "the Archbishop of Canterbury" is not. The examples listed at MOS:JOBTITLES include:
Nixon was the 37th president of the United States.
Richard Nixon was the president of the United States. Surtsicna (talk) 11:55, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

While your arguments would apply in some other instances, the "Note ..." information about the specific style convention for bishops' episcopal titles at WP:BISHOP appears to very clearly settle the matter in this particular instance. Anglicanus (talk) 12:40, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

But it does not. WP:BISHOP says nothing about titles preceded by modifiers. It deals with "Bishop of London", not "the bishop of London". WP:BISHOP does not contradict MOS:JOBTITLES, nor can I imagine it would. Surtsicna (talk) 20:35, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Reith Lecture

I did not see anything in this article on how Rowan Williams has presented one of the Reith Lectures for 2022, on "Freedom of Religious Worship". Where should this information go? Rollo August (talk) 22:11, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Peerage

As Tim riley explained on the Randall Davidson talk page, bishops hold a more senior position than peers and ministers. Therefore, in my opinion, we should use Williams's title and style as an archbishop of Canterbury (The Most Rev and Right Hon Rowan Williams) to name him in the infobox rather than his title as a peer. Векочел (talk) 01:23, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

The archbishops of Canterbury and York, not all bishops! But I agree that the life peerage should play second fiddle to RW's occupation of the highest non-royal position in England. Tim riley talk 15:30, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Info box titles

Williams is described as Archbishop of Canterbury and Primate of All England. But he has now retired from these positions? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:42, 13 February 2025 (UTC)