Talk:Protestantism

Section on Protestant offshoots is poorly structured

The difference between branches, movements, and offshoots seems a bit fuzzy. Specifically, the "offshoots" section does not seem to be an accurate categorization as it seems to encompass movements and theologies rather than actual offshoots. An offshoot section should show those theologies/branches which came out of protestantism, but deny either a fundamental christian truth (such as the divinity of Christ) or a particular protestant characteristic (such as one or all of the five sola). A good example of a protestant offshoot would be Mormonism as it arose out of the restorationist movement, but it subsequently denies the uncreated nature of Christ. Magjozs (talk) 13:02, 26 September 2025 (UTC)

Defining anything that isn't Catholic or Orthodox as "Protestant" is unhelpful and incorrect in a stricter sense

This page describes anything that adheres to the 5 solaes as Protestant, but the issue is Protestantism refers to a specific set of branches that all came out of the Protestant Reformation.

The Restorationist Movement which birthed many new offshoots of Christianity do not have much in common with Protestantism, and many of them don't even agree with the 5 solaes. Furthermore, Non-Denominationalism is literally called "Non-Denominationalism". There are many examples of non-denominational churches which deny multiple of the 5 solaes, and the whole point of non-denominationalism is that it refers to any church which does NOT adhere to any specific tradition or doctrine, therefore it cannot refer to Protestantism at all. In fact Non-denominationalism does not require churches to hold to any tradition whatsoever, which includes the 5 solaes.

It would be much more useful and beneficial to clarify that a strict definition of Protestant branches is used solely for the denominations which came out of the Protestant Reformation, while a broad definition can include any church which adheres to the 5 solaes.

I am not suggesting the page changes all definitions of Protestantism, but merely adds a clarification that in a strict sense Protestantism may only refer to denominations which came out from the Protestant Reformation KuTakBisaOmong (talk) 04:07, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

@KuTakBisaOmong: It would be good to include much of what you want to add in the body of the article, but it needs to be put there first before adding it to the lede because the lede is intended to be a summary of the entire article (and citations are generally not needed in the lede since the supporting citations are assumed to be in the article body). However, while it does make some sense to treat these offshoots as something other than Protestant, it's not clear that that is the opinion of the majority of scholars that deal with it. So it would be good to indicate, with citations, what the current majority view is. Part of the difficulty is that many of the "non-denominational" or "Evangelical" churches (at least in the U.S.) have a predominantly Baptist theology, which would seem to place them in the Protestant group, while others definitely have moved away from traditional Protestantism. It seems like it's a continuous spectrum to me, so the issue is determining what exactly is the dividing line between Protestant and non-Protestant. As far as where in the article to put this, i don't know. I've skimmed the article and see several sections where it might go, e.g., Major branches, International movements, Protestant offshoots, or even Spread and demographics. However, the article currently treats all these possibly non-Protestant groups as being counted among the Protestantism, so whatever is added needs to take that into account and may require changes in multiple parts of the article to maintain consistency. Indyguy (talk) 05:29, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

Could you point me to a place where I can add that to the body of the article?

I’ll clarify that this is not the only right way to define Protestant as a broad definition would include any church which agrees with the 5 solaes, but it is a clear and distinct method that works, and it was also used in many times in history to for the original Protestants to distinguish themselves from other denominations such as Anabaptists. KuTakBisaOmong (talk) 07:16, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

I agree. We should define Protestant as these five historical denominations at it's core:

• Lutheran
• Reformed (Presbyterian, Continental Reformed, Congregationalist, etc)
• Anglican
• Baptist
• Methodist

And maybe even add Moravians. We need to stop using loose definitions of Protestant, because that just makes it more confusing, and contradictory. Anything not Roman Catholic is just a bad idea in general. Also we need to stop classifying Pentecostals, Restorationists, and modern Evangelicals as Protestant. The Based Baptist YT (talk) 22:56, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

This whole section is not right to me... this isn't how any academics I've seen define protestant. The citations do not say what the article says - like a citation for a claim that baptists and methodists are part of the "reformed" branch - which clearly states baptists and methodists are two seperate branches (along with reformed, lutheran, and anglican). Can anyone link a source that actually uses protestants just to refer to denominational families pre 1800? EBrittanica definitely includes all of these as protestant. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Protestantism/Protestantism-since-the-early-20th-century. Also the claim that these movements don't have shared history with the classical protestant denominations is simply false. ~2026-24824-00 (talk) 17:42, 25 May 2026 (UTC)

Also theres not really a theological line you can draw around sacraments here. The supposedly post-protestant view is generally the same as the baptist view. I think the editors above me are young, and writing from a sectarian view point not a historical academic one. ~2026-24824-00 (talk) 17:47, 25 May 2026 (UTC)

I have seen many academics define Protestantism in it's historical and strict form as only branches that emerged during the Protestant Reformation. Some qualify that broadly speaking (not strictly speaking), the modern day definition may still include independents/non-denominationalism, however they still distinguish between "classical Protestantism" and "Evangelical Protestantism"

The founders of modern-day non-denominational churches state themselves, they are not Protestant. In the 19th century, the American Restoration Movement (led by Barton W. Stone and Alexander Campbell) birthed the modern popular "independent/non-denominational" church model. They explicitly rejected the label "Protestant." They argued that Protestantism was merely a reformed version of a corrupted Roman Catholicism. They wanted to bypass Protestantism entirely and "restore" the primitive, 1st-century church. As I quote:

- "We do not conceive of ourselves as being a denomination–nor as Catholic, Protestant, or Jewish, but simply as members of the church which Jesus established and for which he died."-

If you search up that direct quote on the internet yourself, you will find various Churches of Christ (non-denominational) congregations state this on their own websites (which they also qualify as representative of their entire organization)

Also no, it is not false that these movements don't share history with classical Protestantism. Rather, it is a fact. The original Protestant Reformers taught that voluntary schism and independency was a serious sin, unchristian behaviour and should be resisted. Here are a few quotes:

- "How perilous, then, nay, how fatal the temptation, when we even entertain a thought of separating ourselves from that assembly in which are beheld the signs and badges which the Lord has deemed sufficient to characterize his Church!" (John Calvin in Institutes, Book IV, Chapter 1, Section 11). -> This quote is referring to independents who wanted to leave the established regional church and start their own churches.

- "There is no pattern or footprint in all the New Testament of any single congregation's independence... Independent government is a root of division, a mother of heresies, and an engine to break the visible unity of Christ’s body." (Jus Divinum Regiminis Ecclesiastici/The Divine Right of Church Government) -> This was written by an assembly of London ministers under the Presbyterian church at the time.

- "Schism is a sin against the very life and essence of the Church... It is a killing of Christ in His members, and a tearing of His body limb from limb." (Richard Baxter, The Cure of Church Divisions, 1670) -> Baxter was a major Puritan theologian of his day.

- "I say, it is not errors of opinion that destroy the Church, but it is the sin of separation—this proud, self-conceited leaving of the flock—that cuts the throat of Christian unity." (Bishop Joseph Hall, The Peace of Rome) -> Hall, one of the Anglican divines.

I can find many other quotes from prominant Protestants such as even Luther who said that voluntary schism + independency is a grave sin.

And finally, the claim that the Protestant View is the same as the Baptist view is demonstrably false. I don't even need to cite a source for this, just do a quick google search to understand what the original/historic and even present view of Holy Communion is for Lutherans, Anglicans, Reformed, Methodist and even the first Baptists (whilst many modern day Baptists view communion as a mere symbol, the original Baptists held to spiritual presence + every other Protestant Denomination has the majority of clerics believe Jesus is present in communion). Luther himself refused to shake Zwingli's hand as Zwingli implied communion was just a symbol (though Zwingli clarified later on he didn't mean it that way). KuTakBisaOmong (talk) 00:59, 26 May 2026 (UTC)

Independents as Protestants

The World Christian Database (WCD) classifies Christians into four major traditions, viz. Catholic, Protestant, Independent and Orthodox. It further groups Christians as belonging to two broad movements, namely Evangelical and Pentecostal/Charismatic, that are found within the Catholic, Protestant, Independent and Orthodox traditions.(Source1) It is important to note that the four major traditions are mutually exclusive, while the two movements are not. This means that a Christian ideally cannot be both Protestant and Catholic, simultaneously, unless doubly affiliated. But he/she can certainly identify with multiple movements within a major tradition, such as an Evangelical Protestant or a Charismatic Catholic or an Evangelical Charismatic Independent. So, the numbers for Evangelical and Pentecostal/Charismatic movements must not be added together, as they are overlapping categories.(Source2) Please note that in Source1 the four major traditions are indented at the same level, whereas the two movements are indented further to the left.

WCD defines Independents as “Christians who do not self-identify with the other major traditions: Orthodox, Protestant or Catholic. They are independent of historic, organized, institutionalized and denominationalist Christianity”, and clarifies that “Most Independent movements originating in Africa, Europe and Latin America are also Pentecostal/Charismatic in belief and practice”.(Source3) Sources apart from WCD add the numbers of these Independent non-denominational Pentecostals to the Protestant total. For example, Hans J. Hillerbrand (Source4) and Pew Research Center (Source5) considers Independents as Protestants, and adds their numbers to the Protestant total. Following those examples, this Wikipedia article should say that, in 2026, the WCD lists 637,856,000 Protestants along with 426,370,000 Independents, who are mostly non-denominational Pentecostals. Otherwise, this article would not realistically and accurately portray the current size of Protestantism.--Longsword9 (talk) 06:13, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

"Protestant movement" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Protestant movement to the article Reformation has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2026 April 16 § Protestant movement until a consensus is reached. —Myceteae‍🍄‍🟫 (talk) 14:33, 17 April 2026 (UTC)