Talk:Pheni

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. You can locate your hook here. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Launchballer (talk) 05:16, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

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• Article history

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• ... that consuming fine threads occasionally helps you stay hydrated?
• ALT0a: ... that consuming fine threads helps you stay hydrated while fasting?

• Source: "The milk with which it is cooked also gives hydration and strength to sustain the day."

• • ALT1: ... that additional labor is hired for making fine threads only to be eaten? Source: "In Ramadan we hire extra labor who work in the vermicelli section"
  • ALT1a: ... that additional labor is hired for making fine threads only to be eaten in Ramadan?
  • ALT2: ... that people in the Indian subcontinent eat a sweet dish resembling a bird's nest? Source: "This is a crunchy bird’s nest of dried noodles"
  • ALT2a: ... that many Muslim and Hindu households have a ritual sweet dish resembling a bird's nest?
  • ALT3: ... that a bird's nest can be eaten?
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Abby Cook (television presenter)
  • Comment: Although I may be too late, but can this work as a Muslim/Eid Special DYK set scheduled next week? Alternatively, ALT3 may be considered for DYKAPRIL. Also, please watch out if the page title is moved to Pheni as requested by me.

5x expanded by M.Billoo2000 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 8 past nominations.

M. Billoo 19:28, 14 March 2026 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Article meets all of the DYK criteria: length, newness, etc. Love the idea of having this for the Eid set. Copyvio tool flags no issues. While I was editing the article for language, I tagged one sentence {{clarification needed}}. What rounds? Also, to work with the proposed Eid set, I'd recommend highlighting the connection between pheni and fasting in the hook.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 20:16, 14 March 2026 (UTC)

@Crisco 1492: Thank you for reviewing. I cannot interpret/translate what should that be called in English. Perhaps, this video would help in visualizing the act of stretching the dough and making multiple layers of it in cicular shape until fine threads are visible (too long text). Any suggestions? Also, added three more ALTs, highlighting fasting, Ramadan, and Muslims respectively. Lastly, in update of my above comment, the page has been moved. Thank you. M. Billoo 20:49, 14 March 2026 (UTC)

• Alright, I've simplified for the sake of getting this moving, given the tight timelines. Looks good to go! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 20:52, 14 March 2026 (UTC)

• Note: in the first two hooks, I changed the ungrammatical "keeps you stay" to "helps you stay". MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 22:09, 14 March 2026 (UTC)

GA review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Pheni/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: M.Billoo2000 (talk · contribs) 00:27, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

Reviewer: GearsDatapacks (talk · contribs) 12:39, 19 April 2026 (UTC)

I'll review this over the next week. {{GearsDatapacks|talk|contribs}} 12:39, 19 April 2026 (UTC)

Criteria 1: Well written

Criteria 1a

Criteria: the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.

I noticed a couple of grammar mistakes which I've corrected for you so as not to waste your time. Other than that:

• I think it would be good to briefly mention what khajla and the sargi thali are in the lead, as they aren't wikilinked and it isn't clear to me as an unfamiliar reader what they are referring to.

 Done

• In the "Etymology" section, you mention the origin of the term phenaka, but don't explicitly link it to pheni. If my interpretation is correct, it might be clearer to write something like "The name pheni is derived from the Sanskrit term phenka, which means ...".

@GearsDatapacks: While writing the article, I could not figure out the exact history or origin, since it is debated. Therefore, I only kept these terms as relevant but did not use commentary as per WP:SYNTH. Any way, is this a reliable reference? M. Billoo 10:29, 20 April 2026 (UTC)

Doesn't look like a reliable source to me, as it seems to be largely self-published and written by a single person. If you can't find a reliable source linking the term phenaka to pheni, it's probably best to just not mention it in the first place. You can still keep the etymology for sutarfeni though. {{GearsDatapacks|talk|contribs}} 10:50, 20 April 2026 (UTC)

Added two more references to make the claim stronger, and rephrased as suggested. Hopefully Fixed now. M. Billoo 11:14, 20 April 2026 (UTC)

Looks good now, thanks. {{GearsDatapacks|talk|contribs}} 12:16, 20 April 2026 (UTC)

• In by using the airfrying technique instead of deep frying, perhaps wikilink "airfrying"? I would say not everyone knows what airfrying is.

 Done

Criteria 1b

Criteria: it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.

• Y Lead sections: Lead adequately summarises the rest of the article.
• Layout: I'm not sure "Reception" is the best title for the last section, as that's not really descriptive of the section contents. Perhaps something like "Properties", as it's describing how long the food can be kept and its nutritional value? Alternatively, "Consumption", as it's describing high demand during Ramadan season, and how it is used while fasting.

Changed to "Surveys", hopefully Fixed

• Y Words to watch: No editorialising or POV pushing found.
• Y Fiction: Not applicable to this article.
• Y List incorporation: Not applicable to this article.

Criteria 2: Verifiable with no original research

All citation numbers taken from this version of the article.

Criteria 2a

Criteria: it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.

Y Contains "Footnotes" and "References" sections.

Criteria 2b

Criteria: reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged ... must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph.

All good, except that citation number 1 is missing a page number.

The one with Google Books? Even I am confused, it was working back then, but is broken now. It has text on three different pages, means three different locations in India. M. Billoo 11:54, 21 April 2026 (UTC)

If the pages are one after another, you can use the |pages= parameter to specify multiple. If they're separate, you may need to split it into multiple citations or use {{sfn}}. {{GearsDatapacks|talk|contribs}} 12:24, 21 April 2026 (UTC)

Pages 1746 and 1752. Can you please add these separately? M. Billoo 08:02, 22 April 2026 (UTC)

Done. I'll try to finish the spot check and overall review by the end of today. {{GearsDatapacks|talk|contribs}} 08:33, 22 April 2026 (UTC)

Spot check (criteria 2c)

• N [2]: As far as I can tell, this source is user-generated content, so is not reliable.
• N [3]: This looks like a self-published blog, so is also not reliable.
• N [4]: Another self-published blog.
• N [5]: User-generated content.
• Y [10]: While YouTube is usually considered unreliable and user-generated, the creator appears to be a subject expert, which is allowed per WP:SPS.
• Y [11]: Reliable source, and supports text.
• N [15]: This appears to be a company blog, which also falls under self-published sources.
• Y [18]: Source appears to be reliable and supports text.
• Y [27]: Reliable source that supports the text.
• Y [28]: Supports the claims in the article.

Overall there seems to be an over-reliance of unreliable self-published sources in the article, which need to be fixed before the article is promoted to GA.

Criteria 2d

Criteria: it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.

Y Earwig detects nothing. Will be further confirmed in the spot check.

Criteria 3: Broad in its coverage

Criteria 3a

Criteria: it addresses the main aspects of the topic.

I think there are a could of things that could be added here:

• I saw some sources about illegal and unhygienic manufacturing of pheni, which could be good to include here.

 Done

• More information about the traditional usage of pheni. You mention it briefly in the lead section, but I think it could be expanded into its own section, or perhaps as part of an existing section.

Hopefully Fixed

Criteria 3b

Criteria: it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail.

Y Article adequately summarises the topic without tangents.

Criteria 4: Neutral

Criteria: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.

Y Article is neutrally written.

Criteria 5: Stable

Criteria: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.

Y No ongoing edit war or content dispute.

Criteria 6: Illustrated

Criteria 6a

Criteria: media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.

Y All images are appropriately tagged on Commons.

Criteria 6b

Criteria: media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.

Y All images are relevant and suitably captioned.

Review complete

@M.Billoo2000 I've completed my review. The only outstanding feedback is the spot check, where I found a lot of unreliable self-published sources. I'll put the article on hold to allow you to correct this in the next week. I'll review the sources again in 7 day's time, or if you tell me it's ready beforehand. {{GearsDatapacks|talk|contribs}} 12:58, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

@GearsDatapacks: Thank you for your feedback. I am aware of using such references. Can these still not be used to support some facts like translation of the word "suterfeni", or the dish looking like a bird's nest, or the fact that it is consumed while fasting, or the fact that it can be decorated with dry fruits? Instead of replacing these references which would be hard at this point, what if I remove them? Does the page in the same condition qualify without removing any other statement? My other intention was to WP:V the recipe because some people may not want to look up the video references and may want to cross check the text based references. Thank you! M. Billoo 13:02, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

No, you generally can't use self-published sources for any information, except for uncontroversial facts about the person who published the material. (e.g. a celebrity posting on social media about when their birthday is fine).

In general, since anyone can write anything on a user-generated-content platform or on a self-hosted website, there's no reason to trust that it's true. This is opposed to trusted news sources, where some level of fact-checking occurs to ensure false claims do not get published.

When it comes to removing the sources, I'm not sure, as I haven't done a detailed review of every source and claim. If, for any given paragraph that currently uses an unreliable source, you can find a reliable source that's already cited (or that you can cite additionally), then you can keep the claim. If you can't back it up with a reliable source, then it has to be removed. You need to determine this on a case-by-case basis. {{GearsDatapacks|talk|contribs}} 13:26, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

Can you please do another favor? I see many references that say "sutar means thread and feni means fine", and that sutarfeni is originated from Gujrat. But, I cannot evaluate the reliability for the reference if they fall under SPS or blog or something non-RS. Please find a better reference for placing here, thank you. Meanwhile, I have removed all above highlighted references and am currently doing spotcheck now. M. Billoo 14:44, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

Sorry, but I don't really have time to find reliable sources for all the claims in the article. That's something you'll need to do yourself if you want to get it to GA. You can ask for help from other editors at the help desk if you need to. {{GearsDatapacks|talk|contribs}} 20:57, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

@GearsDatapacks: I have completed the spotchecking from my side. As of now, there are two instances where citation is needed. Please suggest; either if I remove them, is it still valid to go for a GA; or should we wait for someone's response who can interpret Indian-based-languages to add the references to support these claims? And, are thes references reliable? Thank you! M. Billoo 15:43, 28 April 2026 (UTC)

Hello! I would say it's fine if you remove the uncited claims, it still should be GAable as long as the other sources are reliable. Of the sources you provided there, the first two seem to be from an unreliable company blog (it's explicitly labelled as a "blog" on the website), but the latter appears to be reliable, as they describe their editorial process on their website. {{GearsDatapacks|talk|contribs}} 16:56, 28 April 2026 (UTC)

I think I have completed from my side, thank you! M. Billoo 12:24, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

Okay, I'll re-review it in the next couple of days. {{GearsDatapacks|talk|contribs}} 12:26, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

Rereview after hold

Second prose review

• In different cities of Pakistan, pheni and khajla both are used as a traditional food in the month of Ramadan – I think you should mention what khajla is here, as it doesn't come up again until several sections later.
• An alternate approach to prepare suterfeni – You don't actually mention what sutarfeni is, you just talk about how it is prepared.
• pheni is only occasionally prepared for traditional purposes – This makes it sound like it is mostly prepared for non-traditional purposes, and only occasionally prepared traditionally. From some of the sources, it seems like it's prepared year-round, but it has a big increase in production during Ramazan.

Second spot check

Citation numbers taken from this version of the article.

• [2]
  • Y (a)
  • Y (b)
• Y [7]
• Y [12]
• Y [13]
• N [15]: Self-published company blog, but looking at the other cited sources, you can remove this without leaving uncited claims in the article.
• Y [18]
• Y [21]
• Y [22]
• Y [23]
• Y [24]

@M.Billoo2000 just a couple more issues to fix before I promote this to GA. {{GearsDatapacks|talk|contribs}} 18:25, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

Okay, looks like the issues have been corrected. Good to go! {{GearsDatapacks|talk|contribs}} 21:17, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.