Talk:Pedro I of Brazil

Proposal to add Portuguese regnal numeral (Pedro IV) alongside Pedro I

The current article title and infobox list only Pedro I of Brazil. However, Pedro also reigned as Pedro IV of Portugal, a title by which he remains widely recognized in Portuguese historiography and public memory. Given his major role in Portuguese history and the fact that he is known as Pedro IV in Portugal, it would improve clarity for readers to acknowledge both regnal numerals. Wikipedia already accommodates similar cases where a monarch is known by different numerals in different realms. Examples include:

A) Ferdinand I of Austria / Ferdinand V of Bohemia

B) James VI and I (Scotland / England)

C) Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor / Francis I of Austria

(etc etc etc)

In these cases, the infobox and/or lead reflect both numerals by which the ruler is commonly known in different national or cultural contexts. This ensures that readers who search or recognize the monarch by either numeral can locate the article easily.

Given these precedents, and Pedro’s continued recognition as Pedro IV in Portugal, adding the Portuguese regnal numeral to the title (e.g., Pedro I & IV) or at minimum including both numerals in the infobox would align with established Wikipedia practice and help readers from both Brazilian and Portuguese contexts.

PS: This is my first time participating in Wikipedia discussions, so apologies in advance if I've missed any conventions or procedures. Thank you for your time and patience. Fuzera (talk) 19:25, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

"Pedro I & IV" is a wikipedia neologism that is not found in any reliable source. Per project-wide consensus it therefore cannot be put anywhere in the article. "Pedro IV" is already in the infobox and (like "Pedro I") it should be restricted to only one mention in the infobox. DrKay (talk) 19:35, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

Hi @DrKay, thank you again. I understand your concern regarding neologisms and I’m not insisting on the combined “I & IV” form.

What I am trying to address is that the current infobox presentation makes Pedro appear primarily as a Brazilian monarch, with his role as King of Portugal appearing secondary or less visible. Historically, his Portuguese regnal identity as Pedro IV is equally established and remains the standard form in Portuguese historiography.

To mirror the treatment of other dual-realm monarchs (e.g. James VI and I, Francis II/I), the goal is simply to ensure that both regnal identities are given clear and proportional visibility, without creating a new title form.

I am happy to follow whatever formatting approach is most appropriate for the project. I only want to make sure Pedro’s Portuguese kingship is represented with the same visibility and clarity as his Brazilian title for readers coming from either historical tradition.

Thanks again for the guidance. Fuzera (talk) 19:45, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

FAR

Featured articles cannot contain original research. If editors are unable to provide reliable sources (i.e. not wikis, reddit, youtube, geneanet, etc.) for the new name in the infobox, I will be taking the article for featured article review. DrKay (talk) 22:22, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

Historian Braz Augusto A. Brancato of the Pontifícia Universidade Católica do Rio Grande do Sul referred to Pedro in Historia Constitucional (No. 5, 2004) as Pedro I of Brasil and IV of Portugal. Clearly no one is inventing new terms Fuzera (talk) 22:36, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

That's not the point, which I've already explained several times. Everyone knows he was Pedro IV of Portugal. It is the double numeral that is the problem. DrKay (talk) 22:47, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

Plenty of historians have referred to Pedro as I and IV. Usage of double numerals are also not uncommon for wikipedia. Fuzera (talk) 23:03, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

"provide reliable sources". Providing a non-answer that does not address the point in question makes your position weaker not stronger. DrKay (talk) 23:09, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

My brother I've give you an example of an Historian writing Pedro I and IV all the way back in 2004. Do you just want me to pile here a bunch of references about people repeating the same thing over and over and over again? Fuzera (talk) 23:16, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

That source is available online and I have read it. It does not include the phrase "Pedro I and IV" or "Pedro I e IV" or "Pedro I & IV" at any point. DrKay (talk) 23:21, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

The title says "D. PEDRO I DO BRASIL E IV DE PORTUGAL". Fuzera (talk) 23:22, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

In line with phase 1 of the featured article review process, you have two to three weeks to provide reliable sources actually addressing the point in question. DrKay (talk) 23:23, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

First you deleted my edit bcs there was no consensus, than you moved to this nonsensical game. I am struggling to understand your actions beyond some mere pettyness Fuzera (talk) 23:25, 1 November 2025 (UTC)