Talk:Papyrus 75

Wikification needed

The description section is done in a rather unorthodox style. Wekn reven 14:28, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Luke 23:34 in P75

As someone appears to be going around making edits about whether P75 includes the words ὁ δὲ Ἰησοῦς ἔλεγεν· Πάτερ, ἄφες αὐτοῖς, οὐ γὰρ οἴδασιν τί ποιοῦσιν (And Jesus said: Father forgive them, they know not what they do.) due to a misunderstanding of the variants and the ref cited, thought it'd be best to include a talk page topic for people to refer to. If you go to here (page of P75 with Luke 23:18-35), and scroll down to the bottom of the page: on the 5th line from the bottom you'll see the line starts with the last words of Luke 23:34 (εξ αριστερων), followed by the word διαμεριζομενοι from Luke 23:34b, with the rest of the line completing the rest of the verse and continues on the next line, followed by the the first two words of 23:35, with the words ὁ δὲ Ἰησοῦς ἔλεγεν· Πάτερ, ἄφες αὐτοῖς, οὐ γὰρ οἴδασιν τί ποιοῦσιν completely omitted.

Here's the last five lines transcribed (verse numbers included):

εξ αριστερων 34 διαμεριζομενοι δε τα

ϊματια αυτου εβαλον κληρον· 35 και ϊστη

κει ο λαος θεωρων· εξεμυκτηριζον

δε και οι αρχοντες λεγοντες αλλου

ς εσωσεν σωσατω εαυτον ει ουτ⟦ω⟧ος

If anyone else notices pages which have had P75 removed from variants list for Luke 23:34, please undo and direct whoever has done it to this talk page. Stephen Walch (talk) 14:49, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

I apologize for my bad edits. I musunderstood the source. Nevertheless, I checked Codex Sinaiticus and find out that it does include the verse. 2A02:1388:F6:6C42:0:0:7D16:A127 (talk) 15:14, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

Please see my comments to your latest edit - corrector 2a to Sinaiticus notes the words are to be omitted. As per the Codexsinaiticus.org website when you hover over the words also note. Stephen Walch (talk) 15:19, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

Can you please tell me if you know why it was omitted. Is it an authentic saying of Jesus? I just wanna know. 2A02:1388:F6:6C42:0:0:7D16:A127 (talk) 15:24, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

Afraid how most variants materialise is a case of "we don't know". Obviously Ehmran's theory is these words were removed due to Anti-Judaic rhetoric; a theory popular in the mid 20th century was they were removed due to the fall of Jerusalem showing that evidently the Jews hadn't been forgiven, so allowing these words to stand was a contradiction (a theory denounced by Metzger in his Textual Commentary). They could have been omitted early on in the transmission stream due to homoeoteleuton (αριστερων . . . ποιουσιν). Another theory I once read (can't remember where) was they were added due to wanting to make Jesus not look worse than the later Christian martyr Stephen who said whilst he was being stoned "Κύριε, μὴ στήσῃς αὐτοῖς ταύτην τὴν ἁμαρτίαν" (Lord, don't hold this sin against them). Why they may have been added or omitted we unfortunately have no way of knowing for definite. Stephen Walch (talk) 15:37, 23 May 2025 (UTC)