Talk:Pakol

Recent changes

I have made a few changes to this page. First of all the hat is rarely worn in India, and even if it is it is a result of recent cultural exchanges during the past thirty years.

The hat originated in Gilgit and Chitral and not Nuristan, formerly Kafiristan. Before their conversion to Islam in 1895 the then Kafirs of the Hindukush never wore the kapol or any other form of headgear. Please refer to George Robertson's book Kafirs Of The Hindu Kush. 203.99.177.219 (talk) 22:41, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was No move, request made by sock of an indef banned user, so the proposal is void. Parsecboy (talk) 02:16, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

• Pakul → Pakol — This is the correct spelling and most common spelling as per Google search results. — NisarPakistani (talk) 02:52, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
  • If this is uncontroversial, we need more evidence than just google search results, which include many unrelated results. 87.115.19.244 (talk) 08:57, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
    • I copied these comments here from Wikipedia:Requested moves. Please discuss the move in this section. An administrator will be along in a few days to determine whether consensus exists for the move. Thanks!--Aervanath lives in the Orphanage 17:26, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Notice that User:NisarPakistani is a sock of User:NisarKand --Enric Naval (talk) 18:00, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
        • I am the native speaker of Khowar language. the correct spelling of Chitrali cap is Kaphol not Pakul- Akbaralighazi (talk) 03:48, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Betascript Publishing reference

I've removed the following VDM Publishing reference: Lambert M. Surhone, Miriam T. Timpledon, Susan F. Marseken, Pakul, VDM Verlag Dr. Mller [sic] AG & Co. Kg, 2010, on Google books, ISBN 978-6130456955. --Playmobilonhishorse (talk) 04:51, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

I agree. Chartinael (talk) 08:06, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

File:Ahmed S Massoud Pakol Hat.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Edit request on 10 October 2012

I would like to specify that this hat is also worn in north India, in Jammu Kashmir and Himachal Pradesh. In Jammu and Kashmir, it is worn everywhere amongst muslim communities. Jazzbass89 (talk) 03:46, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

 Not done, provide sources and format the request correctly please. gwickwire | Leave a message 01:51, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Nuristani origins False

The formerly non-Islamic people of the region that was known as Kafiristan, Today Nuristan, never wore the khapol. Several references for this exist on the internet including the primary source of Sir George Robertson entitled "Kafirs of the Hndu Kush". The kaifrs did wear turbans on ceremonial occasions but usually went about bare headed. Robertson mentions that a few in the Bashgal Valley, tributary to Chitral, wore it as a result of interaction with Chitralis. This hat most certainly did not originate in Nuristan and if anything the Nuristanis acquired it from the Khow people of Chitral. Thus please delete all comments saying that it is a Nuristani invention as that is a complete and utter falsehood. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 39.47.220.16 (talk) 07:32, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

To be quiet fair, the nuristani's and chitralis are both dardic and are believed to be related to each other so its a shared hat. Also, Nuristanis never wore turbans, their neighbours the Pashtuns did though for ceremonial tribal practises. Akmal94 (talk) 02:13, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Actually true !!!

Nuristani AKA Kafiri (meaning People of Cyrus/Kūruš AKA کورش ) Are are Independent Unique Aryan people , closer to Iranian than Hindic tribes (Encluding Dardic) , the word kafiri is the indigenous Ethnic Ethnonyme before islamisation/Arabization and has nothing to do with ismlamic kafir ( Apophenia).

kapol was likely Macadonian — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.39.198.37 (talk) 22:36, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Traditional belonging

@Stvs222:, Pakol is not an iranic cap, but a dardic cap rather from Chitral. And it is worn everywhere in Dardistan (extends from Kashmir to Nuristan in northern Indus valley) traditionally except Kashmir, which is also associated with other regions of India for its culture.

The hat is only worn rarely by some Pashtun and Tajiks, so why are you associating it with the Iranic peoples? That it is worn by them primarily! –Zhamidz (talk) 14:54, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

I recognise that it is a Dardic cap however it is worn throughout Afghanistan and Northern Pakistan by Pashtuns and Tajiks. It is not 'rarely worn', on the contrary is very widespread among these peoples so therefor to provide the most accurate information in regards to the Pakol cap, it only makes sense to include who wears it. Stvs222 (talk) 04:26, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Pashtuns and Tajiks wearing it doesn't make it Iranic it's originally from "Dardic" people. ~2026-20490-08 (talk) 09:10, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

Types of Pakol

A subject that i will and must add are the different types and styles of Pakols that exist, for example in though the original Pakol was originally worn by Chitralis, diffrent ethnics have heir own unique styles. For Chitralis and Gb they usually wear a feathers. In Swat, they usually were a Pakol with twisted rims called the twisted Pakol,. In Waziristan, Pakistan and Khost Afghanistan, Pashtuns have their own unique style of a Pakol also referred to as "Waziristan Pakol" - It more elongated, and wider as well as larger than the typical Pakol shape almost exclusive to them

These different styles and types should be mention and ill also import wiki Common picture's of them. Thanks :) Kasim30345 (talk) 19:35, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

There are many types of Pakol in Chitral and Gilgit. And both regions actually have somewhat different popular styles. The one which is more popular is from Chitrali Artisans. And there are pakol "styles" that would be considered original ones. Also Chitralis and Gilgitis don't always wear a feather it's for important functions like for grooms or for Chitrali scouts or any important event, on every day to day basis we don't wear the feather though it kinda is used to differentiate chitralis and Gilgitis from other ethnic groups. ~2026-20490-08 (talk) 09:09, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

Origins of the Pakol

To all users, Axedd and VirtualVagabond, I'm adding a detailed, unbiased, explanation for the earliest origins of the Pakol. I will add all the possibilities and theories. I will add your theories and my theories and so on. I have also included citations to back them up. No one knows how the Pakol actually originated. But we have to include all the possibilities. Please do not remove edits with reliable citations and evidence. Don't be disruptive to the improvement of the article, or you will be reported. Leopardus62 (talk) 03:30, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Adding specific ethnic attribution (Gilgiti and Chitrali) to the lead

I would like to propose adding that the pakol is the traditional hat of the Gilgiti and Chitrali people in the first paragraph. While it is now widely worn across Afghanistan and by Pashtuns, historical and ethnographic records show it is traditional of the Shina and Kho people of the Gilgit and Chitral regions, Supporting Sources John Biddulph (1880) in Tribes of the Hindoo Koosh identifies the rolled woolen cap as belonging to the Shina people of Gilgit and Astore.George Scott Robertson (1896) referred to it specifically as the 'Chitrali cap' and noted its spread from Chitral into neighboring regions like Kafiristan (Nuristan).Ahmad Hasan Dani and other historians confirm the cap’s roots in the Karakoram and Hindu Kush ranges before its 20th-century adoption by other groups. ProsePioneer (talk) 22:12, 16 February 2026 (UTC)

User:ProsePioneer, I do not object if you mention specific ethnic groups in the lede. However, you do not have consensus to remove northern India from the introduction. If you continue to do that, I will have no choice but to revert you and take you to WP:AN3. I hope this helps. With regards, Anupam^Talk 19:23, 18 February 2026 (UTC)

Could you provide a reliable secondary source (per WP: RS) that shows it is a widely worn traditional garment there? While it is seen in parts of J&K, it appears to be a relatively recent adoption or limited to specific pockets compared to its status as a primary traditional dress in the Hindu Kush and Karakoram. I’d like to ensure the lead accurately reflects the scale of its use in that region to maintain WP:WEIGHT ProsePioneer (talk) 19:26, 18 February 2026 (UTC)

There are several sources in the article that document the use of the cap in northern India. As you are mentioning the Shina people, keep in mind that a significant portion of that ethnic group resides in northern India. Pakols are additionally sold and worn in Delhi. Anupam^Talk 19:35, 18 February 2026 (UTC)

Anupam, I have reviewed the primary ethnographic literature and the evidence does not support Northern India as a place of origin or as a primary traditional region for the pakol. Historical Records: Major John Biddulph (1880) and G.S. Robertson (1896) both identify the cap's heartland as Chitral and Gilgit. At the time of their documentation, the 'rolled woolen cap' was not the standard attire for Dardic groups in the Kashmir Valley or Ladakh. WP:WEIGHT While a small Shina minority in India wears it today, and it is sold as a fashion item in Delhi, Wikipedia's Neutral Point of View policy (specifically Due Weight) requires us to distinguish between a garment's cultural home and its modern retail availability. The Kashmiri confusion many sources (like Induscarpets or Pamir Times) clarify that what is often called a 'Kashmiri cap' in modern markets is actually the Chitrali pakol that was adopted later. ProsePioneer (talk) 19:51, 18 February 2026 (UTC)

User:ProsePioneer, this discussion is not about the origins about the pakol. The origin is clear—Chitral. However, you wish to remove from the lead "northern India", where it is worn (you admitted that in India, it is sometimes referred to as a Kashmiri cap). Even if this is a more recent trend, it is still occurring and that should be documented, not removed. Anupam^Talk 21:05, 18 February 2026 (UTC)

Anupam, the inclusion of 'Northern India' in the lead para violates WP:LEAD and WP:WEIGHT. The lead should define what the subject is fundamentally. The pakol is fundamentally the traditional attire of the Kho and Shina people of Chitral and Gilgit. While it may be 'sold in Delhi' or worn by a small minority of Shina in Gurez, this is a secondary distribution. Including it in the lead sentence gives it equal weight to the regions where it is the universal national dress. We do not list 'Japan' in the lead sentence for 'Blue Jeans' just because they are sold and worn there. We list the cultural origin.

I move that we specify the Kho/Shina/Gilgiti/Chitrali origins in the lead, and move the mention of its presence in Northern India to the 'Distribution' or 'Popularity' section of the article. This preserves the information without misrepresenting the garment's cultural heartland ProsePioneer (talk) 21:51, 18 February 2026 (UTC)

Despite the fact that you didn't have consensus to implement your edits, you continued to edit war on the article. As I mentioned, the lead documents where the cap is worn and you have removed it. Your edits demonstrate a WP:BATTLEGROUND mentality, where you have made similar removals in other articles, such as this one. You were warned not to edit war and to respect WP:BRD. Since you have not heeded my warning, you have been reported. Anupam^Talk 03:05, 19 February 2026 (UTC)

Greco-Bactrian origin and Afghan connection

The current article overemphasizes northern Pakistan as the sole origin of the pakol, while ignoring strong academic evidence linking it to the Greco-Bactrian heritage centered in modern Afghanistan.

Academic sources supporting this: 1. Kingsley (1981), "The Cap that Survived Alexander", American Journal of Archaeology 2. Cambridge History of Iran, Vol.3(1), ed. Yarshater, Cambridge University Press 3. Richard N. Frye, "The History of Ancient Iran", Verlag C.H. Beck

User ProsePioneer removed -5,678 characters of sourced content without adequate justification. The claim that this is "based on a single journalistic source" is factually incorrect as the sources cited above are major academic publications.

A neutral article should present both the northern Pakistan association AND the Greco-Bactrian historical connection. ~2026-16412-75 (talk) 08:44, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

The connection has been called nonexistent multiple times. If you're from Chitral or the Northern regions

you'd know pakols did not use to look like they do now their appearance being similar to kausia now is due to modern sewing machines.The new pakol styles are because of Chitrali artisans getting their hands on modern sewing machines etc. ~2026-20490-08 (talk) 08:59, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

If anything the older chitrali pakol look even *more* like the kausia than the modern pakol does. The current article looks like it has been torn apart by nationalists who want to claim an eternal or unique cultural heritage. ~2026-33396-49 (talk) 11:43, 5 June 2026 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Group of Afghanese men wearing pakol.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 09:06, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

Funny to see

How Pakistani nationalists try so bad to claim pakol as them and most of them are punajabi ~2026-19809-30 (talk) 23:17, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

The word Pakol is literally khowar word. What's actually embarrassing is seeing Afghan Nats try to call it Afghan. Pakol is Chitrali and Gilgiti it's ethnic headwear of Kho and Sheen people whether you like it or not. Seeing Y'all Afghan Nats try to make it sound like it's Afghan and other ethnic groups got it from them is embarrassing. The material shu/Patti required to make pakol is Native to Chitral. It's called Chitrali wool among Pashtuns and other ethnic groups. As a Chitrali who has no problem with other ethnic groups wearing pakol as long as they don't try to claim it Pakol is Chitrali and It's Pakistani as every Chitrali identifies as Pakistani not afghan nor Indian. Sheen people also identify as Pakistani. Also there is a Nooristani guy on TikTok who literally said under his video that they got Pakol from Chitralis. ~2026-20490-08 (talk) 08:54, 2 April 2026 (UTC)